Another potential silver
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Re: Another potential silver
Definitely Palomino.
This is a Silver Black foal...
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]
And this is a Silver Bay
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]
whose dam is Silver Black.
The foal you have pictured is classic Palomino + Sooty (smutty).
Re: Another potential silver
I first thought so myself, but if you take a smoky black with silver or a buckskin with silver ---- how does this look like?????
I haven´t seen him since he was a young foal, so I´m very curios how he will be now on closer inspection ---- the pic is the best I could get.
Re: Another potential silver
Here is a buckskin silver foal at six weeks.
[img]http://www.willowbendfarm.com/golden%20…]
At a year
[img]http://www.willowbendfarm.com/wonder2.j…]
As a two year old
[img]http://www.willowbendfarm.com/goldencan…]
As a four year old
[img]http://www.willowbendfarm.com/golden%20…]
Re: Another potential silver
Wow!! He looks more like pearl, than silver!!!!
A friend of mine had a stallion who was at birth chestnut -- at 2 years he was a deeeeep copper -- at 4 years he had changed again and had a very thick black feet and black mane and black tail with white streaks -- and an stripe like a buckskin - a gorgeous horse --- I have a few pics of him left, I think
Re: Another potential silver
Found him --- but only in wintercoat --- I look after one with summer outfit
Re: Another potential silver
[quote="WhyNot-Ponys"]Wow!! He looks more like pearl, than silver!!!!
A friend of mine had a stallion who was at birth chestnut -- at 2 years he was a deeeeep copper -- at 4 years he had changed again and had a very thick black feet and black mane and black tail with white streaks -- and an stripe like a buckskin - a gorgeous horse --- I have a few pics of him left, I think[/quote]
If he truly was chestnut, then that would make him a sooty chestnut now.You can see it in his neck and how high the black goes up his legs.
Re: Another potential silver
The thing that vexes me are the white strands in mane and tail -- for the tail - he shows no other sign of rabicano, so thats cancelled out. He has black mane and tail - so no chance for silver --- the sooty I agree with. But look at his feet --- they aren´t entirely black as you would expect with a bay.
Here are non-winter pics
[img]http://www.gestuet-vilstal.de/images_bi…] [img]http://www.gestuet-vilstal.de/images_bi…]
Re: Another potential silver
His feet aren't black because three of his legs have socks.
The one without a sock is dark, not light.
He does actually look like a Wild Bay to me, do you have baby pictures???
Are you aware that Bays do not have dark legs as babies, and could possibly be seen as "chestnut" because of this??
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]
This is a most definitely bay foal.....
Re: Another potential silver
Of course, I know --- I´ve bred enough bays to recognize the signs. But I never saw a coloring like his. Wild bay would explain his short black feet, but the white strands of hair -- thats the difficult part for me. Maybe they correspond with the metallic sheen of his fur. I don´t know if a dilution gene or what other factor can be responsible for this.
He showed a dorsal strip --- is it possible that creme collides with other dilutions so that none can work properly?
I´m especially interested in this, because since April we have a daughter of him and we can´t test him anymore.
Re: Another potential silver
[quote="WhyNot-Ponys"]I first thought so myself, but if you take a smoky black with silver or a buckskin with silver ---- how does this look like?????
.[/quote]
Two silver buckskins (top one is tested silver buckskin)
Cocoa as a foal
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/…]
Now
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/…]
Dazzle
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/…]
Re: Another potential silver
Ditto everyone else, but for more examples these horses are all bay. They are a bit young and may gain more points as they age, but they are bay.
[img]http://khartoonkhlassic.com/chargerleft…]
[img]http://khartoonkhlassic.com/img6.jpg[/i…]
[img]http://khartoonkhlassic.com/Khlassy01s…]
[img]http://khartoonkhlassic.com/cleo.JPG[/i…]
Re: Another potential silver
It's only called frosting on buckskins IMO. Guard hairs on duns. Sabino on neither. This horse's is caused by sabino. Not that uncommon really. It's especially prevalent in Welsh I find.
Actually. I'm somewhat inclined to change my mind to chestnut based on those last photos. I can understand wild bays legs being reddish. However those legs look REALLY red to me. So red I'm now leaning to sooty chestnut.
Re: Another potential silver
He was very long chestnut --- as far as I had found out around 2 years. All bays I know had developed their black long hair after the first coat change - he waited more than 3.
But could black mane and tail be explained by sooty??? His father is registered bay (but from the very bad pics I have of him he may be a very dark sooty chestnut) - his mom is chestnut (from a sooty chestnut father).
Didn´t know frosting derives from sabino --- thanks accphotography!
Re: Another potential silver
Well it derives from sabino unless it's on a buckskin, then it's from cream. :lol:
The mane and tail could definitely be caused by sooty.
This is a sooty chestnut (for certain):
[img]http://colormorgans.tripod.com/merwinsa…]
Re: Another potential silver
I'm curious as to why you think it is not frosting on a bay...that is what I have always called it and thought of it as...the cause??
Could be myriad causes, the resultant phenotype seems the same though.
Frosting on a Buckskin caused by Cream??
I have not heard that one befroe...OK, why do not all Buckskins have it, then, and why does my Black Dun have it???
Re: Another potential silver
Ok acc -- that´s an absolute gorgeous horse!!!
I know a sooty chestnut nearly as black as him.
And here comes the next but --- but is it possible just to have the mane and tail black and the rest of the body sooty bay? Is this possibly the combination of sooty with sabino that lightens the body color???
As to the frosting --- I don´t understand why the frosting of a buckskin is different of the frosting of a bay???
If we assume that sabino is the reason for frosting --- then do we have an interaction of sabino with creme, too???
Re: Another potential silver
I know that with specific colors we are on the area of pure speculation, but isn´t that part of the fun?? :P
I´m learning heaps of you guys - Germany is virgin island to color-detection. Anything above black, chestnut, brown, gray and creme dilution is foreign even to most breeder (except Shetland breeder --- but Shetty is always a little bit different, isn´t it?).
I´m looking forward to see his daughter coloring out --- at the moment she is 5 months old and shedding -- if she steps in her fathers footsteps she´ll take a while to decide what she´ll look like.
Re: Another potential silver
[quote="rabbitsfizz"]I'm curious as to why you think it is not frosting on a bay...that is what I have always called it and thought of it as...the cause??
Could be myriad causes, the resultant phenotype seems the same though.
Frosting on a Buckskin caused by Cream??
I have not heard that one befroe...OK, why do not all Buckskins have it, then, and why does my Black Dun have it???[/quote]
Because it isn't. :laugh1 Have you EVER seen frosting on a BAY like this?:
[img]http://www.fabquarterhorses.com/fabquar…]
Notice how WHITE that frosting is? That type of frosting ONLY happens on buckskins.
This is dun frosting:
[img]http://www.geocities.com/equine_color/d…]
Notice the guard hairs (I don't call this frosting because IMO it is not) are the same color as the diluted portion of the body, not white.
Bay... something. I wouldn't call them guard hairs (even though that's what they look like, for me guard hairs are exclusive to dun) or frosting (because it's not white). They are the same color as the body.:
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/…]
I have seen each of these phenomenon in person and they are very distinctly different visually.
The hairs in the horse in question... I'll bet they're actually grayish/silver if someone were to look closely, not white. IMO this is sabino at work. Virtually identical to sabino body ticking, except this is a result of ticking in the mane. We've all seen the bay Welshes that have LOADS of this silver/gray coloring in their mane and tail.
Another thing that's very different between frosting, guard hairs and the bay shading is that those are ALL on the upper layer of the mane like they were literally laid on top. This horse has this silver color thoroughly mixed into the mane. Ever see that on a buckskin or dun? I haven't.
So... I guess it's all in theory, but I firmly believe all four phenotypes are caused by different genes.
Re: Another potential silver
[quote="accphotography"]So... I guess it's all in theory, but I firmly believe all four phenotypes are caused by different genes.[/quote]
Now there is a remark that I can actually agree with!! 8-)
Regardless of what you want to call it...forsting, guard hairs, dun, creme, in the end it is your opinion, and your label stuck on a phenomenon. Not a universally accepted scientifically proven fact. (in many cases) That does not imply that it could not be. Just that is cannot be presented as fact (or at least, not just yet)
JMO
Re: Another potential silver
This one is a palomino. She'll lighten back up in her next coat.