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Palomino Appaloosa Colt

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AppyLady
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Palomino Appaloosa Colt
I was told that I should post pictures of my colt here. Not only does he have an unusual blanket, but he's shedding out to be an odd sort of palomino. Here he is at one day old. IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/Palomino%20Colt/SparklesColt173.jpg) Here he is now, at 2 1/2 months. IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/Palomino%20Colt/Colts060.jpg) Most of my palomino foals have been born sort of a peachy color -- not quite red, not quite yellow. They turned out to be a real light shade of palomino. Since this guy was a darker shade at birth, I was hopeing he might turn out to be a golden palomino. I didn't really expect this! This is what his face looks like where he's shedding around his eyes and muzzle. IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/Palomino%20Colt/Colts027.jpg) The points of his hocks. IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/Palomino%20Colt/Colts009.jpg) His mane and tail are growing out a sort of chocolate color. IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/Palomino%20Colt/Colts019.jpg) I'm anxious to see what color he'll be when he finishes shedding his baby fuzz. I'm wondering if the ApHC will even register him as a palomino?!
lipigirl
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Welcome Appylady !

You are now free to post away - we love pictures on the site.

Sweet looking foal - can you tell us more about the parent's colours please - photos would be good too if you can.

Maigray
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Hoo boy - he could be really dark - or, is it possible he is actually black based and Lp has interfered so much with his color at this early stage?

AppyLady
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Thanks!

Dam is a rather ordinary chestnut LP-roan, in the first picture.

Sire was a palomino leopard.
IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/Greener%20Pastures/ImperialGold3-25-19964-23-2009.jpg)

At first I thought the colt was chestnut, but in the sunlight he had a golden glow to his coat, rather than red. So I had him tested for cream, and it came back positive.

lipigirl
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Dark Palamino it is then !!! With 2 red based parents and cream.....keep us posted please with his progression pics.

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

That would have been me that prodded you here!
Welcome!

I think he's a super cutie. Glad you already had him tested for creme....he's one dark baby!

Daylene Alford
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

What an interesting boy! I'm looking forward to seeing what color he is under his foal coat.

accphotography
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

I completely disagree. I feel the dam is bay or black and the foal is a smokey black.

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

I completely disagree. I feel the dam is bay or black and the foal is a smokey black.

Agree. Mom is definitely black or bay. Im not even sure the sire is palomino. I see black in that tail, though admittedly it could be sooty.

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AppyLady
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Hiya Red!

Sire is definitely a palomino, proven by breeding. (Or was -- he died two months ago.) He was sired by a palomino leopard and was out of a chestnut near-leopard.

I am ~~ almost ~~ positive that Sparkle (the dam) is chestnut. But I know LP can mess with base color. I'll try to find more pictures of her. Her dam was definitely chestnut, and I believe her sire was chestnut as well (Goer bloodlines). I'll have to check.

My smokey black horses have been indistinguishable from regular black, so I'm pretty sure the foal isn't smokey.

These are bad photos, but this horse is a half brother to the palomino leopard. He was born palomino, and the sooty kicked in later. He sired palomino and buckskin foals (out of non-cream mares), and none of them were sooty like he is.
IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/HezaBriar3.jpg)
IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/AppyLady10/HezaBriar2.jpg)

I think my colt is going to take after his Uncle Briar!

RiddleMeThis
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

My smokey black horses have been indistinguishable from regular black, so I'm pretty sure the foal isn't smokey.

Smoky black (who funnily enough also has a Goer line)
tested EEaaCRcr
IMAGE(http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/1/3/0/8/6/p6070140a.jpg)
As a foal
IMAGE(http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/1/3/0/8/6/kippur_newborn.jpg)

This one is ALSO black
IMAGE(http://www.designsporthorse.com/Horse%20Photos/Ava/Ava_0442%20600pxlh%20090807.jpg)

As is this one
IMAGE(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Riddle_Me_This/Dell_0287072905A.jpg)

This one is also either black or bay, with the possibility of having cream (and his dam is by Goer)
IMAGE(http://www.rockbottomappaloosas.com/stumpy3_25.jpg)

I would bet money that the dam is black based as is this foal...Im also curious how you prove a horse is palomino. Cream I can see, but I cant see proving that hes red based.

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peruvianpasogal
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

The dam looks like a liver chestnut to me, I have a filly sheding out liver right now. I am guessing the baby is chestnut that is going to varnish out by the color changes it has already went through. When I was breeding appys the ones that changed multiple colors the first year were the ones that varnished out.

AppyLady
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

There were no surprises with any of the palomino stallion's foals. If he was actually black-based, it seems likely that it would have shown up in at least some of his foals.

Fortunately, there's an easy way to find the answer! I can have the foal tested for red factor. Do I need to submit a new hair sample, or can they re-use the first one?

accphotography
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Who did you use and how long has it been? Chances are you will need to send another sample.

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AppyLady
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

UC Davis, and it was about...2 months ago? I can't print out their forms on this computer, so it's a pain in the patootie to send in a sample.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
I completely disagree. I feel the dam is bay or black and the foal is a smokey black.

Agree. Mom is definitely black or bay. Im not even sure the sire is palomino. I see black in that tail, though admittedly it could be sooty.

Sire is definitely red-based...if he were a bay, he'd have black spots on the lower part of his front legs, rather than red spots.

Diane

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Further on the "funky" black when combined with Lp...

IMAGE(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/NZAppaloosas/Ace.jpg)

He tested Eeaa.

Diane

accphotography
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
I completely disagree. I feel the dam is bay or black and the foal is a smokey black.

Agree. Mom is definitely black or bay. Im not even sure the sire is palomino. I see black in that tail, though admittedly it could be sooty.

Sire is definitely red-based...if he were a bay, he'd have black spots on the lower part of his front legs, rather than red spots.

Diane

If horses without LP white on their legs can have red legs when they are black based, why couldn't a leopard??

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NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Because the Lp doesn't really turn the black "red" as in chestnut/bay-body red. If you look at the sire, the body spots are the same colour as the leg spots. If Lp modification of black were working on a bay leopard, I would expect the lower leg spots to be off-coloured.

That being said, I can also say that I've never noticed the Lp "effect" on anything but solid/lightening marked legs...our bay nose-to-toes leopard, has just black, and I can't think of any bay leopord where I've seen the Lp "funkifier".

Diane

RiddleMeThis
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

Sire is definitely red-based...if he were a bay, he'd have black spots on the lower part of his front legs, rather than red spots.

Unless of course he were to be colored like this horse, and then the spots would most likely look red.
IMAGE(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Riddle_Me_This/Dell_0287072905A.jpg)
IMAGE(http://www.designsporthorse.com/Horse%20Photos/Dotty/Dotty%20Trot_0023%20061106%20B500%5Bxlw.jpg)
(same mare as above in background)
IMAGE(http://www.designsporthorse.com/Horse%20Photos/Rivet%202008/Dotty%20Colt%202008%2016hrs%20sm_0056%20071708.jpg)

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NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

RMT, those horses are actually illustrating my point...the funkifying only seems to happen when the legs are solid (or with lightening marks, since Casey seems to be going thru a stage right now...at least I don't think it's mud... :laugh1 ).

None of the horses you show above are nose-to-toes leopards, and as I stated, I can't say I've seen this phenomenon on a nose-to-toes.

Diane

accphotography
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

My question is how would you know? If they can look like that without white there, what's to stop them from looking like that when there is? I guess we'd have to find a chestnut or pally looking leopard who tests black based to prove it, but I don't see why it wouldn't happen.

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Fledgesflight
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

That's an awesome colour-think he'll be similar to his half uncle.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

My question is how would you know? If they can look like that without white there, what's to stop them from looking like that when there is? I guess we'd have to find a chestnut or pally looking leopard who tests black based to prove it, but I don't see why it wouldn't happen.

Because the funkifying effect on black does turn the colour chestnut red. It's a bronzy, chocolatey "off" colour. In this particular sire, the colour of the sire is a very definite chestnut red.

Diane

AppyLady
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

It's certainly not impossible that a black-based horse could appear to be a palomino leopard. LP definitely has a mind of it's own!

However, in this case, the simplest explanation is that the sire is exactly what he appears to be -- a palomino leopard. He comes from a line of palominos, and none of them have produced anything other than what you'd expect of a palomino. No surprises. The only odd-colored colt is the one pictured, and I'm certain that he's red-based.

If it walks like a duck....

accphotography
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

That's just it. The way he's shedding off doesn't look red based to me. His dam certainly doesn't either, however she doesn't matter as he could still be red based regardless of what she is.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

AppyLady
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

The mare's tail may look black in the photo, but it's actually dark red. She's red everywhere that isn't roaned. Her points are definitely not black. She looks to me like an ordinary chestnut.

There have been many photos posted on this forum of palominos that look even less like palominos than my colt does! So I certainly think it's within the realm of possibility that he is indeed a palomino.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

The reason why I say the mare is black or bay, AL, is that, on my screen, she looks very much the same colour Ace was in that photo, and he is genetically black (he's mostly white now, so I guess he'd count as a false fewspot ).

Think you need to get some colour testing done, to put this baby to bed :laugh1

Diane

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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

LOL, Diane. Will do!

AppyLady
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

The test results are in!

Red-Factor Result:
e/e - Only the red factor detected. Basic color is sorrel or chestnut in the absence of other modifying genes.

Agouti Result:
A/a - Black pigment distributed in points pattern. Basic color is bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.

Cream Result:
N/Cr - Heterozygous, dilute, one copy of Cream gene. Typical colors are palomino, buckskin and smoky black in the absence of other modifying genes.

Didn't someone mention a bet? Money?! :mrgreen:

accphotography
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt

For the colt or the mare?

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