Palomino Appaloosa Colt
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Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
Thanks!
Dam is a rather ordinary chestnut LP-roan, in the first picture.
Sire was a palomino leopard.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/…]
At first I thought the colt was chestnut, but in the sunlight he had a golden glow to his coat, rather than red. So I had him tested for cream, and it came back positive.
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
Hiya Red!
Sire is definitely a palomino, proven by breeding. (Or was -- he died two months ago.) He was sired by a palomino leopard and was out of a chestnut near-leopard.
I am ~~ almost ~~ positive that Sparkle (the dam) is chestnut. But I know LP can mess with base color. I'll try to find more pictures of her. Her dam was definitely chestnut, and I believe her sire was chestnut as well (Goer bloodlines). I'll have to check.
My smokey black horses have been indistinguishable from regular black, so I'm pretty sure the foal isn't smokey.
These are bad photos, but this horse is a half brother to the palomino leopard. He was born palomino, and the sooty kicked in later. He sired palomino and buckskin foals (out of non-cream mares), and none of them were sooty like he is.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/…]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/…]
I think my colt is going to take after his Uncle Briar!
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
[quote="AppyLady"]
My smokey black horses have been indistinguishable from regular black, so I'm pretty sure the foal isn't smokey.
[/quote]
Smoky black (who funnily enough also has a Goer line)
tested EEaaCRcr
[img]http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pi…]
As a foal
[img]http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pi…]
This one is ALSO black
[img]http://www.designsporthorse.com/Horse%2…]
As is this one
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]
This one is also either black or bay, with the possibility of having cream (and his dam is by Goer)
[img]http://www.rockbottomappaloosas.com/stu…]
I would bet money that the dam is black based as is this foal...Im also curious how you prove a horse is palomino. Cream I can see, but I cant see proving that hes red based.
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
The dam looks like a liver chestnut to me, I have a filly sheding out liver right now. I am guessing the baby is chestnut that is going to varnish out by the color changes it has already went through. When I was breeding appys the ones that changed multiple colors the first year were the ones that varnished out.
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
There were no surprises with any of the palomino stallion's foals. If he was actually black-based, it seems likely that it would have shown up in at least some of his foals.
Fortunately, there's an easy way to find the answer! I can have the foal tested for red factor. Do I need to submit a new hair sample, or can they re-use the first one?
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
[quote="RiddleMeThis"][quote="accphotography"]I completely disagree. I feel the dam is bay or black and the foal is a smokey black.[/quote]
Agree. Mom is definitely black or bay. Im not even sure the sire is palomino. I see black in that tail, though admittedly it could be sooty.[/quote]
Sire is definitely red-based...if he were a bay, he'd have black spots on the lower part of his front legs, rather than red spots.
Diane
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
Further on the "funky" black when combined with Lp...
[img]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/…]
He tested Eeaa.
Diane
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
[quote="NZ Appaloosas"][quote="RiddleMeThis"][quote="accphotography"]I completely disagree. I feel the dam is bay or black and the foal is a smokey black.[/quote]
Agree. Mom is definitely black or bay. Im not even sure the sire is palomino. I see black in that tail, though admittedly it could be sooty.[/quote]
Sire is definitely red-based...if he were a bay, he'd have black spots on the lower part of his front legs, rather than red spots.
Diane[/quote]
If horses without LP white on their legs can have red legs when they are black based, why couldn't a leopard??
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
Because the Lp doesn't really turn the black "red" as in chestnut/bay-body red. If you look at the sire, the body spots are the same colour as the leg spots. If Lp modification of black were working on a bay leopard, I would expect the lower leg spots to be off-coloured.
That being said, I can also say that I've never noticed the Lp "effect" on anything but solid/lightening marked legs...our bay nose-to-toes leopard, has just black, and I can't think of any bay leopord where I've seen the Lp "funkifier".
Diane
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
[quote="NZ Appaloosas"]Sire is definitely red-based...if he were a bay, he'd have black spots on the lower part of his front legs, rather than red spots.[/quote]
Unless of course he were to be colored like this horse, and then the spots would most likely look red.
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]
[img]http://www.designsporthorse.com/Horse%2…]
(same mare as above in background)
[img]http://www.designsporthorse.com/Horse%2…]
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
RMT, those horses are actually illustrating my point...the funkifying only seems to happen when the legs are solid (or with lightening marks, since Casey seems to be going thru a stage right now...at least I don't [b][i]think[/i][/b] it's mud... :laugh1 ).
None of the horses you show above are nose-to-toes leopards, and as I stated, I can't say I've seen this phenomenon on a nose-to-toes.
Diane
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
My question is how would you know? If they can look like that without white there, what's to stop them from looking like that when there is? I guess we'd have to find a chestnut or pally looking leopard who tests black based to prove it, but I don't see why it wouldn't happen.
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
[quote="accphotography"]My question is how would you know? If they can look like that without white there, what's to stop them from looking like that when there is? I guess we'd have to find a chestnut or pally looking leopard who tests black based to prove it, but I don't see why it wouldn't happen.[/quote]
Because the funkifying effect on black does turn the colour chestnut red. It's a bronzy, chocolatey "off" colour. In this particular sire, the colour of the sire is a very definite chestnut red.
Diane
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
It's certainly not impossible that a black-based horse could appear to be a palomino leopard. LP definitely has a mind of it's own!
However, in this case, the simplest explanation is that the sire is exactly what he appears to be -- a palomino leopard. He comes from a line of palominos, and none of them have produced anything other than what you'd expect of a palomino. No surprises. The only odd-colored colt is the one pictured, and I'm certain that he's red-based.
If it walks like a duck....
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
The mare's tail may look black in the photo, but it's actually dark red. She's red everywhere that isn't roaned. Her points are definitely not black. She looks to me like an ordinary chestnut.
There have been many photos posted on this forum of palominos that look even less like palominos than my colt does! So I certainly think it's within the realm of possibility that he is indeed a palomino.
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
The reason why I say the mare is black or bay, AL, is that, on my screen, she looks very much the same colour Ace was in that photo, and he is genetically black (he's mostly white now, so I guess he'd count as a false fewspot ).
Think you need to get some colour testing done, to put this baby to bed :laugh1
Diane
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
The test results are in!
Red-Factor Result:
e/e - Only the red factor detected. Basic color is sorrel or chestnut in the absence of other modifying genes.
Agouti Result:
A/a - Black pigment distributed in points pattern. Basic color is bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.
Cream Result:
N/Cr - Heterozygous, dilute, one copy of Cream gene. Typical colors are palomino, buckskin and smoky black in the absence of other modifying genes.
Didn't someone mention a bet? Money?! :mrgreen:
Re: Palomino Appaloosa Colt
Welcome Appylady !
You are now free to post away - we love pictures on the site.
Sweet looking foal - can you tell us more about the parent's colours please - photos would be good too if you can.