Colour help please

If the sire is defiantly a cremello then the foal must be palomino. It is not all that uncommon for dark palomino foals are born looking chestnut. Critterkeeper on this forum had one born this spring.

Very cute pictures btw. I especially love the last one.

Can we see pictures of your stallion? Maybe he isnt cremello, he would be dun/palomino or palomino/champ...something that can minic cremello to someone that isnt that familiar.

hummm I looked at your site and it might be that you have some "Max whites" and not cremellos, some of the offspring like the heavy sabino that is from the "cremello" dose not appear to be dilute either, Im leaning tward then being max white and not cremello, have you ever considered having them color tested?

Looking at the foal photos of the stallion (Cedarvale Catahoula right?) I'm fairly positive he is cremello. His white markings are clearly visible in the foal photo.

What photos are you referring to Heather?

I agree that he appears from these pics to be cremello, but when I look at a few other horses on the site like Miracle (out of a cremello?) and her half sis ( Pearl, who is "cremello, but looks like she would be max white and miracle who looks like a heavy sabino like alot of max whites throw) I just wonder if these guys are max whites possibly , maybe he is just a palomino/max white...just reaching here but the miricle/pearl thing got me wondering.... :?: thou I look back at him and see cremello, sometimes pictures can be not as accurate and can vary.

Oh, I have NO doubt that the sire is a cremello - he is a dead ringer for my Luna - :love :rofl Max sabinos don't have the pink skin and those ice blue eyes of the cream dilutes. That foal will lighten as she grows but remember - appy genes play havoc with colors...

Let me find some pixs of Goldie to use as examples of a pali foal mimmicking a sorrel.
Sorry about this one - it was a cell phone on a cloudy day
Day 1
[img]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/j…]

Day 2 with Maya (dam)
[img]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/j…]

Day 4

[img]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/j…]

2 months
[img]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/j…]

Oh and we can't forget Luna (sire) - he's flexing and showing his pride (had to hide his display - lol)

[img]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/j…]

Oh, I should have added that during my research on dark pali foals (those born looking like chestnuts/sorrels) vs light pali foals (those looking pali or even Isabella) has shown that the darker the foal at, the darker the mature coat :love . Goldie is going into her winter woolies and is still a dark golden color, whereas, by this time of year Arthur (rip)would have been cream colored and completely white by mid-Nov. 8-)

I am axiously awaiting Spring to see her first real shed...I know her mane is as white as snow :D , but so far her tail hasn't turn completely (a lot of dark red in there yet) - and with her being a sooty pali, it may stay :cry: .

The pictures of the stallion don't help me much as far as confirming that he's a cremello. I'd like to see a closeup of his head with his eyes and muzzle clearly visible. I really do think he is one, but would like true confirmation.

I've seen palomino foals as dark as yours. For the sake of argument, do you have any other in tact males that could have gotten to your mare?

I don't actually find Goldie all that dark. Especially not in the older photo. Usually the first shed is by far the darkest (MANY palominos shed out chocolate at first and later shed back out a normal color), and she still looks relatively light there. I wouldn't expect her to be pale this winter as this is her darkest shed. I bet her tail will come in white as I think if she's sooty, it's minimal. IMO of course. :D

I agree there is no point at which I found Goldie anything other than a dark Palomino.
I have also not found the dark at birth dark adult coat maxim to be true, either, it can be, sometimes, often they just go too dark, sometimes they stay the same all their life, I found nutrition to be far more important in defining a Palominos coat colour.
Luck of the draw, I am afraid, nothing else.
Still the foal is visually Chestnut, and I have seen some really dark Palomino foals in my time but I have never seen one that is, truly, visually Chestnut.
The only think I can suggest, if there is no possibility of the parentage being incorrect and if it has been verified by DNA, is that Appy is screwing with the pattern/colour...........again!!!!

A simple cream test would answer the question. Though I think it will be obvious in a few weeks.

Looks visibly Chestnut to me too. A test would settle it. Cute foal regardless :)

I just wonder about him due to the fact that I wonder about 2 others that are on the site, if he was on there alone I would have not wondered, but there are 2 other horses on the site related that look max white. Not cremello as advertised. he clearly has one palomino parent and may well be, i just wonder about his mother, maybe a whole max white thing going on. It could be a appy thing again, we know how they love to mess us up, but a test would solve it!

I never thought goldie was anything but paly, she has a hue that is differnt then a chestnut from birth, while she was dark she still looked pali.

I think these are his baby pics at the bottom of this page? http://cedarvale.bravehost.com/FOALS.ht…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; he has a blaze there.

The suposed sire definately looks double dilute in his foal pictures-I would be looking into the possible true parentage of the foal.

Miracle isnt the half sister to pearl, syntax is pearls half sister. Mirri is out of a cremello mare sired by a black stallion, i have no cklue as to what colour she is either...up close she looks to have a bickskin coloured coat and a lot of roaning but from a distance she looks grey...???

The two cremello girls syntax and pearl are sired by a cremello stallion and one of their dams is pally from memory and the other is cremello...

[quote="accphotography"]The pictures of the stallion don't help me much as far as confirming that he's a cremello. I'd like to see a closeup of his head with his eyes and muzzle clearly visible. I really do think he is one, but would like true confirmation.

I've seen palomino foals as dark as yours. For the sake of argument, do you have any other in tact males that could have gotten to your mare?

I don't actually find Goldie all that dark. Especially not in the older photo. Usually the first shed is by far the darkest (MANY palominos shed out chocolate at first and later shed back out a normal color), and she still looks relatively light there. I wouldn't expect her to be pale this winter as this is her darkest shed. I bet her tail will come in white as I think if she's sooty, it's minimal. IMO of course. :D[/quote]

I have one other stallion but he is not on our property and hasnt been for a long time... so no other stallions could be the father there are horses on the neighbouring property but they are geldings......

[quote="Heather"]I just wonder about him due to the fact that I wonder about 2 others that are on the site, if he was on there alone I would have not wondered, but there are 2 other horses on the site related that look max white. Not cremello as advertised. he clearly has one palomino parent and may well be, i just wonder about his mother, maybe a whole max white thing going on. It could be a appy thing again, we know how they love to mess us up, but a test would solve it!

I never thought goldie was anything but paly, she has a hue that is differnt then a chestnut from birth, while she was dark she still looked pali.[/quote]

I have no other horses on the site related to my stallion...???

[quote="Fledgesflight"]The suposed sire definately looks double dilute in his foal pictures-I would be looking into the possible true parentage of the foal.[/quote]

Those are the parents of the stallion 100% as i know the breeders and their horses... we knew him as a foal still on the mother...

hes a cutie!
I agree with if the sire is cremello foal must be pally, I have seen them born this dark before.

[quote="Heather"]I just wonder about him due to the fact that I wonder about 2 others that are on the site, if he was on there alone I would have not wondered, but there are 2 other horses on the site related that look max white. Not cremello as advertised. he clearly has one palomino parent and may well be, i just wonder about his mother, maybe a whole max white thing going on. It could be a appy thing again, we know how they love to mess us up, but a test would solve it!

I never thought goldie was anything but paly, she has a hue that is differnt then a chestnut from birth, while she was dark she still looked pali.[/quote]

the 2 that are related are sired by a cremello stallion and one is from memory out of a pally and the other is out of a cremello, both have blue eyes... same goes for his mum she is a cremello i am sure of it...

also there is no appy in my stallions breeding or the 2 cremello mares...??

No they just meant that since the foal is appy, if it really is palomino and yet doesn't look it that it must be the appy causing the funky color. I personally disagree, but *shrug*.

What if it is something crazy like the mare isn't really chestnut but is black based and the foal is smokey?
Oh! and a second thought, what if the sire isn't cremello but perlino or smokey?
Sorry just thought I'd throw that idea out there, I know before there was a picture of a 'chestnut' that was really black.

...more than likely its just a dark palomino

Believe me when I tell you (not that you will) that a dark palomino foal does not look Chestnut.
It looks like a dark palomino foals!!
This foal is visually Chestnut.
I think it is Appy screwing with the coat.
That can and does and has been seen to happen.
Many times.
There is NO doubt about that whatsoever.
Personally I think this foal needs to be colour tested.
If it is not Palomino it is NOT by the sire, there is no percentage of foals by a CrCr that are not Cr, it is passed on.

The sire has to be cremello based on his parentage. I can't say about the dam though. This foal is far too young to have been a black based turned by LP. That usually doesn't happen until the yearling shed from what I've seen.

RF: What about all the non LP foals that are palominos and born this color?

1. appy
2. foal

:GTM
:lol:

This foal has no app breeding at all:
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu18…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look how she's shedding out (although I'm confident she will lighten back up next year):
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu18…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i have a friend who got a chestnut from 2 pally parents.. could something similar be happening here? i know ppl who say they have gotten chestnut from the same colour breeding... they say rare but it happens..?? the mare comes from a long lines of chestnut and sorrels could her genes possibly be stronger? i mean the cremello is a double diluted chestnut am i right?

also forgot to mention all other foals from this stallion are pally's... no other colour! i just had another foal born this morning out of a bay mare and it was also sired by him and came out pally... the first foal this season was pally pinto from a buckskin pinto mare and the 2nd foal this yr was pally sired by him also out of a buckskin dun mare...

???

Pally to pally will give chestnut 25% of the time and true double dilute with [i]never[/i] make a chestnut. Just can't happen. He will always pass on the dilute cause he doesn't have anything else to pass on.