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White Patterns article posted

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Daylene Alford
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White Patterns article posted

I have finished the white pattern article.

http://canine.colorgenetics.info/content...

rodeoratdogs
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I know I get the piebalds in

I know I get the piebalds in my Rat terriers(first 3 pics)and we call the ones marked like rodeo a blanket back(4th pic), and then if the color go's further down the leg then it would be a tuxedo(Rodeo actually has one sleave like a tux)but that is referring to the color not the white pattern. Would the first 3 pics of my dogs all be considered piebald and then Rodeo's pattern would that be the Irish markings or do they have to have the blazed face?

Daylene Alford
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Yes, the first 3 would be

Yes, the first 3 would be piebald. I think the last is probably a minimal piebald. It is similar to what is known as mantle in Great Danes.

Are their any completely solid or very minimal white rat terriers?

rodeoratdogs
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Yes there are ones with very

Yes there are ones with very minimal white, just toe tips and maybe and little spot on the neck, but it is a no no for the breed standard for them to have no white, they must have some white. I personally like the minimal white ones because I like that the tan shows more with what ever the base color is, because with more tan showing and the white it is very stiking. Hunters however prefer the piebalds as they are more easily spotted in the feild. I like to breed a blanket back or mostly solid dog to a mostly white piebald and then I get both and everything in between.

Daylene Alford
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That looks alot like what

That looks alot like what boxers have and if so it wouldn't be a minimal piebald but rather Irish spotting. If it is then the genes involved would be S, si, and sp. The S would be the solids or very min white (if you subscribe to the theory of incomplete melanocytes migration). sisi would be Irish Spotting with white under sides. sisp would be the middle of the road patterns (probably your blanket back) and spsp would be the extreme white and the piebald.

Have you ever seen a very minimal white bred to a Irish spotting like the last one you posted?

Daylene Alford
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I would be interested in

I would be interested in seeing some of those families if she has photos she would be willing to share.

rodeoratdogs
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Oh yeah! duh, she bred Lily

Oh yeah! duh, she bred Lily to her male Tank and he's blanket back and I think they did have some were piebald with quite a bit of white. I tried to locate some pictures but she already took them all down from her site already.

rodeoratdogs
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Here is a picture of my

Here is a picture of my friend Renae's "Sunset Acres Lily of the Vally", she is a very minimal white, Pearl/tan/white Rat terrier.

http://imageevent.com/sunsetacres/sunset...

rodeoratdogs
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Not right off the the top of

Not right off the the top of my head. I have never bred 2 like that, but Renae might have. She had Lily's mom who was a blue/tan/white also very minimal white, and she had quite a few litter's from her but I think she mated her mostly with Tequila's dad Striker who was a Choc/tan/white Piebald. But I know a lot of Rat terrier sites, I'll see if I can find somthing. There might even be some examples on Renae's site I just have to look and see.

rodeoratdogs
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I'll ask her if she wouldn't

I'll ask her if she wouldn't mind sharing some pics.

rodeoratdogs
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Here we go she sent me the

Here we go she sent me the link to her Lily & Tank puppies.......

http://imageevent.com/sunsetacres/availa...

Daylene Alford
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I finally got a chance to

I finally got a chance to take a look at these. It's very interesting. Looking (and assuming the current theories) the sire and dam would both have to carry a sp. So I'm guess the dam is Ssp and the sire would have to be sisp. I think this would account for all the pups. The low whites would be Ssp (or perhaps si) like the dam the one blanket back would be sisp like the sire and the piebald one would be spsp.

Sorry it took me so long we've been driving to midnight every night until tonight.

rodeoratdogs
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Lol sounds interesting but

Lol sounds interesting but you might have to dumb that down for me a bit /:)

Daylene Alford
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Ok let me see if I can make

Ok let me see if I can make it a bit easier. According to the inheritance studies done in boxers there are 3 alleles to white patterns. S (solid), si, and sp. In boxers si and sp are respectively Irish spotting and piebald. They are both recessive to S meaning that if a dog has an S allele then neither si or sp will express but they can work together meaning that if a dog has an si and an sp allele they will have more white than if they were sisi (which would be an Irish spotting pattern) but less white than if they were spsp (which would be a piebald pattern). In these pups I think both of the parents must have a sp allele since one of the pups is an obvious piebald (spsp). Since the dam has so little white, and none of the pups has an obvious Irish Spotting pattern, I'm assuming that she is Ssp and the sire is si sp. This seems to fit all the pups in that we have Ssp (or perhaps Ssi) to account for the low white pups, sisp to account for the blanket back pup like the sire and spsp pups that are piebald.

Hope this helps a bit,

Daylene

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Gaaaa, j/k ok I think I sort

=p~ Gaaaa, j/k ok I think I sort of get it now, I just am not familiar with the simbles for the white patterns in dogs like I am in horses. I thought the blue/tri puppy "Brandon" has the Irish spotting pattern, or does he have a bit to much white on the leg?

LesliKathman
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You might want to add the

You might want to add the Panda mutation that was found in German Shepherds.

A unique coat color pattern, termed Panda, occurs in a single bloodline of German Shepherd Dogs. With the help of the founding breeder, Ms. Cindy McCann of Ohio, we have analyzed the DNA of Panda dogs and their non-Panda littermates using modern genetic tools. We have proven without a doubt the following

-The coat color pattern stems from a spontaneous mutation; it was not introduced from another breed or population.
-The de novo mutation occurred in the Sire’s germ line, and was then passed down to his daughter, who was the only offspring of that sire to show the distinguishing markings.
-In subsequent generations, the Panda pattern has exhibited an autosomal dominant mode of inheritance, consistent with the action of a single gene acting with full penetrance.
-No discernible health affects have been observed in these dogs, though a double Panda dog has not yet been produced.
As the principal investigator of this study, I would be delighted to answer questions by breeders and owners who are interested in the genetics and biology of this coat color pattern. I can be contacted at:
Mark Neff, Ph.D.
VGL Canine Genetics

You can see a picture of one here:
http://www.gallantwatchkennels.com/about...

pandemonium