Champagne?? Can test be wrong??

I thought champagnes had to wear it to share it.
Any photos of his parents?
He doesn't look champagne to me.

Cmon! where are the champagne foals(blue eyes)! the parents! Him as a foal! anything to help me come to terms with this :shock:
Ok, slight exagerration but man what a shocker ;-)

No idea who his parents are, someone who had bought his a couple of his foals, had his hair to do dna, so did colour as well. Tested for everything and suprisingly he came up champagne. The test was questioned so they did it again. Still Champagne! I agree he doesn't look it!! Very strange!!

edit to add, don't know of any of his foals that have tested to have the same gene yet, but no doubt they will start testing them.

doesn't look it to me either..lol

the stallion below him on the page of the long list of stallions, Flash William, looks almost identical to him (white is just a bit different in some places)

...wait so it wasn't the OWNER doing the test? But some random person who just had hairs from him?

[quote="RiddleMeThis"]...wait so it wasn't the OWNER doing the test? But some random person who just had hairs from him?[/quote]
and who has a vested interest since his foal could then "be" champagne

Nuh, the person who did the test did so with permission and support of owner. She's also nothing like that, she only ran the colour tests out of curiosity and as a favour for owner, was as suprised as anyone when Champagne came out!! The owner got the re-test done. Maybe animal genetics are the ones to ask about it?? It's an actual gene test too isn't it, not just a gene that goes with it like the dun test?

I wrote this on another forum, as everyone seems to think the people who did the test are being dishonest.

"For what it's worth I honestly don't believe that this is a deliberate ploy to get a non champagne called a champagne. Simply that they got champagne on the test, were excited and don't know enough about champagne to understand why it's so improbable."

I agree that it's highly unlikey that the horse is champagne, but it's not like either the owner or the lady in the US have champagnes for the hair to get mixed up with. It's very strange!!!

Just an update

The owner of the stallion got back to me today. So for the first test the hairs were sent to a friend in the US, to submit, as the owner knew nothing about colour testing. So when the results were questioned, the owner spoke to the lab, collected new hair samples from the stallion and sent them in herself. The results were AGAIN Champagne!!!

She doesn't understand why I am saying he can't be champagne, she just thinks it's a gene and the test says he has it, so he must have it. I asked about his skin etc.. and she said "his skin is spotted around his under carriage and under his tail", she said his foals are sometimes weird colours but no he doesn't look like the pictures of champagnes. "can't he just carry the gene". The person I'm talking to has no real understanding of genetics or colours, and not really that interested in knowing. So makes it hard. But it does seem as if this horse has tested as having a champagne gene. I guess the small amount of spotted skin could just be the sb1?

There was a heap of people over there last week, I wish I'd known the results then as I would have got someone to try and get some skin pictures etc.. I might be over in the UK this time next year, so could visit and take pictures then.

So assuming this horse DOES have a champagne gene, does it maybe mean that the champagne test ISN'T a test for Champagne and is really something close to it that most champagnes have???

I really do find this case such an abnomally!!!!!
Cheers

Danni

I am curious why so many people think he CAN'T be champagne? We can't really see his skin (and she says the skin under his tail is spotted), we can't really see his eyes in any of the photos, we can't see his points, his coat is quite pale... I mean if it quacks like a duck........ ??

Also, he has INSANE reverse dapples....

could the spotted skin under the tail be due to his white markings though?

http://dixiedownmeadows.webs.com/24-4-2…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in this picture, zoomed in...his eyes still look super dark

http://dixiedownmeadows.webs.com/1%20%2…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; again..eyes look really chocolately here.

Bad angles for the eyes IMO. I'd like to see a closeup in good light. I'd like to see some of the foals they've called odd.

Something is very fishy, stinky fishy. I wonder if they would allow a vet that they don't know to pull hair for the test. The test may not be wrong but the hair may not have come from the stallion in question. How are they going to explain it when he "never" produces a champagne foal???

http://dixiedownmeadows.webs.com/flash%…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

that eye shot close enough ACC? LOL The colored skin around the eyes is jet black looking too...

Oh yeah. Wow. I don't get this.

glad they DID post that eye picture....lol. looks like a tiny fleck of blue in there too *squints*

Yup I see the blue too.

Either this is a kind of phenotype mutation or I agree very fishy indeed.

I find it so weird. I don't doubt at all that the owners pulled the hair from the right stallion, it's in their best interest to do do. The hair was pulled for parentage, not colour. I'll be over that way next year but even if I pull the hair and test it you probably then won't believe me LOL! The owners don't really care, they were excited the horse tested as having champagne just because everyone else was! But they certainly aren't going to pay for a vet to test him yet again. They re-tested him when I asked and they figure it's done with now. Even if the horse has tested has having champagne, he might never have a champagne foal anyway, as he'll be passing on that same non expressing gene??

I think as the foals get sold there might be some of them tested, if one of his foals test as having it too, I'll be much more likely to believe it. If the foal then is also non expressing it though, I won't know what to think or how to explain it!!

Could be an actual case of epigenetics in equines.

http://epigenome.eu/en/2,48,873" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/co…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All of those mice are genetically identical (laboratory "clones") But because of the mother's diet during development the activation of yellow agouti (different from horses) in these mice. Basically environmental factors changed their expressed phenotype from their genetic genotype. I personally think that this explains some somatic mutations and non chimeric brindles since it can cause mottled in-between patterns.

He might have the champagne allele, but something may be preventing it from expressing to it's full extent. I'd have his parents tested as well. I don't see them posted though. :-|

Yes, I know, I'm digging up a long dead thread...

I remembered this guy and got to wondering if anything had ever turned up about him.

I'm curious too!

Geez, what was I thinking with the epigenetics and this a year ago? :P

I don't see him being referred to as a champagne anywhere else than this thread online and none of his foals look champagne to me. I'd want to see what he would retest as.

I have a whole lot of photos of various Flash Harry babies that I took when I was over there LOTS of blue eyed foals etc... most of them never make it onto their website, especially the ones not for sale, would you like me to post some photos?

LOL I have to agree with critter. But we love to torture ourselves with these types of color mysteries don't we? :rofl

Please post!

He wouldn't be the first horse not to follow the 'rules' Tho, I don't think I've seen one break every single one of the 'rules'. As for point color, I don't know how many of you have seen photos and video of Khalvin Khlein KpM. He's a amber champagne warmblood. And while I know he's not the only one to have such dark points, he was the first one I saw years ago and his images have stuck with me since then. If it wasn't for the other characteristics, I'd have sworn Khalvin Khlein KpM was a buckskin.

http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com/gfkk…

Here's the link to Khalvin Khlein KpM. He's probably sable champagne but to the trained eye he is still obviously champagne.

These are some of 'the pink fillies' all three have two blue eyes and are rather attractive but Champagne?? ymwhisle

I was with the Downs for about 10 days and went around a lot of the horses with them.
This is one of 'the blue fillies' - I honestly just thought sabino when I was over there. I DID think that Flash Harry looked the most amazing shiny odd bay in person, almost buckskin which simply doesn't show up at all in the photos which is weird, he was super metallic even in his winter coat. I did wonder at the colour of his bay as all their bay's were super dark to the point of being brown so in that regard he stuck out like dogs balls.

this is the colour of all their other bay horses with the exception of Flash Harry and some of his offspring