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What colour is my Frosty??

Silver Fantasy April 27, 2011 April 27, 2011

Forums

HI there! My friend owns this gelding (although we all consider him to be MY baby now ) and he has had us really confused for a very long time as to what his colour is. He is a chestnut overo froma chesnut over mare (who may have sabino i cant remember and havent seen her for a while) and his sire was gladiator a sorrel overo. The first picture is of him as a 5/7 month old weanling. He has white flecking all through his coat (head/ears/legs included) and had a dark chestnut mane at birth. The second photo is of a clip job done on him at about 9 months of age. It shows how much lighter he was under his longer winter coat. The third photo is one I took just over a month ago, he is about a year and a half in the photo and you can clearly see how much lighter his mane has become and the lighter colouring all over. So what exactly is going on? Is it roaning or Frosting or a heavy sabino? why has his mane gone flaxen? Does anyone have any solution to our colour dilemma? The last two photos are pictures of the same section of neck one taken just before the clipping at 8 months and the second on my recent visit to see him.

Krickette Wed, 04/27/2011 - 10:09

He's a chestnut frame sabino and might also have splash. That's my opinion anyway

Do you have pics of parents? "Overo" is one of the least descriptive and most outdated words around haha. It could mean any other than tobiano. Hopefully both parents didn't have frame, that would have been a huge gamble.

rabbitsfizz Wed, 04/27/2011 - 13:50

Your gelding looks to be a Red base Sabino + Splash- there may or may not be Frame present, as he is a gelding it really makes no difference.

Silver Fantasy Thu, 04/28/2011 - 01:50

I'm mostly interested in finding out what's going on with this guy as he was the mares first foal with us and she has had a second and we are curious to know if the colt she has just had will do the same thing as Frosty.
The mare (Dream) is in the picture below with her new colt foal.
Gladiator the sire isnt really well documented so i don't know too much about him.

Krickette Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:07

:-O :-t If those two horses you pictured are the parents, please please please stop breeding them together!
Both of those horses look to have frame to me, which is something you do not cross! When you breed frame to frame you have a big chance of getting a lethal white foal. That's not fun, trust me.
Both of those horses need to be color tested, it's not expensive at all to find out whether they have frame, well worth the trouble to avoid a dead foal. :shock:
Someone else may see something else going on, but as far as I'm concerned that's too close to call, pull some hairs and order a test!!!

Frame x Frame gives you 25% chance of having no white pattern, 50% chance of having frame, and 25% chance of the foal being homozygous for frame, which causes the foal to be born solid white with digestive problems. A lethal white foal will die within 36 hours, usually sooner.

It's not worth it to breed Frame x Frame at all. Not only do you run the risk of a dead foal, which is traumatic to all involved, but it doesn't give you any better odds of getting a patterned foal!

Frame x non Frame gives you a 50% chance of no pattern, but the same 50% chance of having a patterned foal! Notice the lack of dead foal option.

critterkeeper Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:41

That mare and sire both SCREAM frame to me (OLW sometimes referred to as LWO - both are "frame") and as stated above it is not wise to breed.

You have some lovely patterned horses (frame is a great for colorful patterns), and I suspect they "all" carry frame. I also see sabino and splash....

Oh and if I got it right, and from progeny, it looks like I have, this is Gladiator's pedigree...

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.p…

And this could be the source of the frame...
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/our+sir…

Monsterpony Thu, 04/28/2011 - 13:45

Honestly, from the patterns on them all, it is very obvious that they carry frame. You wouldn't even need the test to show you, but testing is the best way to have proof. If you are going to continue breeding the dam, then you need to look for horses that are negative for LWO/frame. Always ask to see the actual test results as we had a forum member that was told the stallion she had selected to breed to her LWO mare was negative. 11 months later, out pops a lethal white syndrome foal. Obviously, the stallion owner lied about testing.

Silver Fantasy Fri, 04/29/2011 - 00:50

The dam is negative for OLWS. We have had plenty of run ins with the disease and we fully understand the problems associated with breeding overo/frame horses. I only asked for a reason to the change in mane colour and if you think its possible the mother was the reason for it and if its likely to occur in her other foals.

RiddleMeThis Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:34

[quote=Silver Fantasy]The dam is negative for OLWS.[/quote]
I would test her again IMO. (Especially if you weren't the one to test her.)

Daylene Alford Fri, 04/29/2011 - 12:20

The light mane could be caused by sabino mixing in white hairs and giving it the appearance if lightness or it could be flaxen. Flaxen is thought to be recessive so, if it is flaxen, her foals will have a 25% chance to get it IF she is bred to a stallion who also carries it. What causes sabino to go all roany is unknown but they can get more with age.

Sorry we can't be of more help,

Daylene

Krickette Sat, 04/30/2011 - 09:34

[quote=RiddleMeThis][quote=Silver Fantasy]The dam is negative for OLWS.[/quote]
I would test her again IMO. (Especially if you weren't the one to test her.)[/quote]
^^^this!^^^

Krickette Sat, 04/30/2011 - 09:37

If she isn't frame, what on earth is she? I seriously think she's frame stilland there was a mistake testing, cause she just looks soooo typically frame. I can't think of anything else that would do that on her neck and belly...