Very confused! Horse number 1.

Wow. So, you want to know what patterns he carries in addition to Sabino and Frame? The Sabino test is only for one of what is thought very many different sabino genes. I'd still say he is sabino.

I'd guess he may be Dominant White?

It looks like he hasn't shown it in his get, but could carry a copy of Creme if his sire was pally.

His base color definitely has one e (red) gene. I can't tell his dam's base though. If she is out of 2 chestnuts though, she would also be ee and so would your boy.

Do not breed him to anything that has not been tested for OWLS. And never breed him to another OWLS carrier unless you want to risk a lethal white.

Although I don't think that horse is Palomino, I would still test for Cream, so you know what is going on!
It is a multitude of patterns, isn't it??
Since you know he is LWO+ as said, you do need to test any mares, even the ones that look solid, to prevent a lethal white foal.

Welcome !!!!

Yes your boy looks like he is a Maximum Sabino who also carries Frame, you can clearly see that also in his Dam (Max Sabino) , his Sire looks like he is Frame Lethal White and probably Sabino too looking as is your boy. Sometimes when you have enough of the Sabino gene it washes out almost completely the colour form a horse so that for all intense and purposes it looks like it is white. Can you also tell me if he has 2 dark eyes with white eye sclera (from Sabino) or a blue eye too ( from Frame)?

When you got the test results did you not test his base colour? I am with Jenks on this one though he is looking suspicious for Chestnut ! - nice boy !

I vote 100% dominant white. His broodmare sire is a classic example of it.

Looks Max sabino to me too. :)

Thanks guys :HB , oh yes definitely know about the no breeding to OLWS+ mares, he has 2 blue eyes, can someone please explain Dominant White to me? I have read about it but sometimes I don't know whether to believe everything I read on the net. His sire is a chestnut his dam just registered as an extreme sabino, I believe she was a silver dapple like her father judging by that pic, we bought him with those 2 tests already done so now just deciding what else to test him for.

I should add, his dam is now completely white, all her progeny that I can find are all white & Bandit was apparently born as a medicine hat, def no medicine hat there now.

Ok, on that basis I would certainly suspect silver and grey too as the medicine hat should not have disappeared without it. Also if you cross silver with grey modifier it excellerates the greying process to white very fast. As good example of this is my Miniature now gelding who was born a Silver Black pinto with grey modifier, he was pure white by the time he was weaned, I think photos are in the silver section of the gallery.

There is def no grey on his dams side can guarantee that one 100%, Bandit has the odd chestnut/could also be bay hair, is real red, but you have to look very hard to find it. The lady that bought him as a weanling said he never had a medicine hat, had the same coloured hair around his ears, his breeder has a bit of a rep as not exactly the friendliest person so can't ask what he meant in terms on medicine hat but he was sold as a medicine hat.

This is another pic of his dam (not a very good one, I said his breeder... umm yeah not a good rep).

[img]http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25…]

She does not have blues either.

That photo looks like she is completely white? Or does she still have the same pigmentation on her chest as the show photo which is her along time ago and just the photo and the fact it is of poor quality? It is that photo which led me to believe she is completely white, asking her breeder for a recent one or if she truly is now completely white or still has colour is not an option. That one is a few years old apparently. But def no grey in her pedigree.

[quote="bonjovifan"]That photo looks like she is completely white? Or does she still have the same pigmentation on her chest as the show photo which is her along time ago and just the photo and the fact it is of poor quality? It is that photo which led me to believe she is completely white, asking her breeder for a recent one or if she truly is now completely white or still has colour is not an option. That one is a few years old apparently. But def no grey in her pedigree.[/quote]

The spots on her chest are spots on her skin that never made it to the hair. So her hair is completely white, but the speckles on her skin are visible underneath. Around some paint markings you will see them - I think they are called shadow lines or something? But that is where the white didn't quite make it to the hair, but came close to making pigmented hair. She is still a maximum sabino in the scheme of phenotype.

So she is a maximum sabino as well?

[quote="bonjovifan"]So she is a maximum sabino as well?[/quote]

Yes but, (wow I am starting to hate the use of max sabino) it is only a description of what your eye sees....I don't think she is only made up of sabino genes. I'm with ACC on her and the studs both being Dominant White. And then frame is there too....

Can I ask what is the difference between a maximum & extreme or are they one in the same?

Is there a test for dominant white?

Maximum Sabino's or almost completely white Dominant Whites, can be born with some colouring usually along the top line, head included, which will usually disappear usually as the animal ages [i]without[/i] any greying modifier.

When an animal is fully white they can be indistinguishable, but looking through the parents and the grandparents you can usually tell which pattern is most likely-aside from testing for Dominant White (as the SB1 tests only tests for one type of Sabino).

[quote="bonjovifan"]Can I ask what is the difference between a maximum & extreme or are they one in the same?
[/quote]

Maximum (Sabino) nearly always refers to an all white phenotype.
I guess you could use descriptive words such as "extreme" for an extensively marked Sabino.

Nah... it's pretty common for the medicine hats to roan out when a horse has that much white.

Best dominant white information there is:
http://duncentralstation.com/PDF/KITGen…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A good example very similar to the dam-sire:
http://www.barbaralivingston.com/albums…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and a bit louder, but still similar:
http://www.barbaralivingston.com/albums…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So if he is a DW will his progeny always be white? The tovero/sabino filly is a yearling and she is a very rich chestnut.

As a foal, dam a tobiano.

[img]http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25…]

The weanling I believe is still holding his colour too.

ACC knows the average percentage- it's fairly high I believe.

Well, he would pass the gene 50% of the time. Of that 50% the color would range somewhere between 50 and 100% white. Some lines produce nearly all solid whites and some lines tend to produce more pintos.

Excuse my ignorance lol, if he is a dominant white can he also carry other genes like overo & sabino?

Should have added because as he is tested as OLWS+ can they also carry a DW gene as well.

Yup, sure can. I don't have an example for you, but I know they can.

Well, if he tests + for DW he will be the first Mini.......

I'll shout at the people doing the DW research that they should start testing minis. I'm sure they'll find loads of it.

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]Well, if he tests + for DW he will be the first Mini.......[/quote]

How do I be that lucky first Mini that can be tested?

Contact Samantha Brooks at Cornell. See if she'd be willing to test him. Be sure to show her his grandsire. However, I warn you, since all of these dominant whites seem to be separate mutations in each breed, it's HIGHLY unlikely he'd test positive for any of the mutations they've located so far. They'd probably have to develop a test for his line.

I am in Australia so have no idea where/what Cornell is lol.

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/faculty/br…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cornell University, where dominat white research is being done.
http://www.cornell.edu/search/?tab=peop…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;