Sabino is cool

was just wandering around online and found this photo:
http://image5.equinenow.com/equine/data…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

would that be a possible minimal DW?

his sales ad says he is a thoroughbred by Devil Begone and out of a Red Bishop mare(but doesn't give the mares name)

The pedigree (what we know of it) doesn't necessarily support it, but we've seen DW crop up in places we didn't know it was before (or at least theorized). For some reason... my gut says no. When I first saw it my mind immediately said "sabino" before I even really analyzed it. I don't think that very often so I think that says something.

I'd still like to know who the dam is though.

I'm betting Devil Begone has been known for producing some color as I've looked him up before (and that would be the only reason I would have). I have seen some color come from the Halo line, but it's usually splashy and sometimes sabino, I haven't seen any reason to think DW so far........ except if those that I thought were "splashy" are actually DW. Boy wouldn't that be interesting. However that would mean it could express much more minimally than previously thought though (DW that is).

Here are two more mares that I thought of when I saw this thread.
[img]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/…]

[img]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/…]
Daughter & ,I believe, a granddaughter to the first stallion I posted.

According to what I've seen, they all fit, especially the two in the first photo. The second one (the mostly white horse) was questionable to me... but once I thought about a couple Puchilingui sons I'd seen, I changed my mind, she fits too.

[quote="accphotography"]Well, here's the thing about that, because they have not found ALL the dominant white mutations (probably not even close, I actually think there are going to be FARRRR more DWs than sabinos) we can't know yet. Some of them COULD be viable.

So you have the homozygous embryonic lethal going against the dominant white theory.

However you also have the incomplete dominant problem going against the sabino theory.[/quote]

I have a simple solution to that. Let's make up a new name for them haha! Clyde White or something lol!!!

ACC

I've been wondering about this colt since the APHA world.

http://www.twinoakskentucky.com/forsale…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Good Sangria and the picture of his dam and sister (Last Good Sippa Wine) make me wonder even more. Especially his dam.

I should think any American breed could carry frame...not every horse but any of the American made breeds.
Appaloosa probably has the least chance because of it's early restrictions on pinto patterns.

Well, it does complicate matters that the colt is true roan. However the dam is not and the filly isn't (yet). The sire should definitely be frame (frame pedigree and too many frame foals from solid mares) so it's very possible, and in fact likely, that the foals are. The solid legs on the colt definitely indicate frame. Wow, hope the mare is negative. I could see just sabino, splash and frame doing this, but the mare's white is really interesting. She's by a horse who looks just sabino (Scotch Bar Time), but he's by Sonny Dee Bar so I feel sure he's truly splash. Her dam is a frame/splash tracing to Painted Robin who was a very roany frame/splash. I'm not seeing anything to really indicate DW except for her odd roaning. Since she didn't really pass it on I think it may be a fluke.

[quote="Arock"]I should think any American breed could carry frame...not every horse but any of the American made breeds.
Appaloosa probably has the least chance because of it's early restrictions on pinto patterns.[/quote]

I suspect maybe you posted this in the wrong thread?

Appaloosa still have a decent chance of carrying frame because they allow outcrossing to QHs and they can hide frame so easily.

Except for the fact that up until recently, any horse that would have ended up displaying "paint" pattern would have been culled from the registry...yes frame CAN hide, but it doesn't seem to hide in the absence of other white generating pattern genes. With the advent of AQHA allowing their patterned off-spring to be registered AQHA instead of put in the APHA, the chances might rise, but IMO splash is a "bigger" threat than frame, in the appies.

Diane

True, but I'm just thinking about the solid frame AQHAs that could have been bred in without knowing and the foal was maybe a leopard, or was also a solid frame, etc. Now I do agree that after a few generations it probably wouldn't last as it would be visible at some point.

Yes, but keep in mind, not all that many really breed pattern to pattern in appaloosas..there are a few, such as the American Leopard Ranch (or whatever it's called, having a bit of a brain-fart at the mo'), but most people breed leopard to blanket to solid to minimal and back again. The only pattern to pattern breeding not allowed by ApHC is solid to solid, so if frame truly does light up in the presence of other white patterning genes, then it would show up.

Also, yes, it would show up on leopards...the leopard would have 'holes' in the patterning on the sides...the only 'holes' I've ever seen in spots have been ones where theory says sabino is helping, and that's over the rump area (Plaudit-breds have this a fair bit, for an example of what I mean).

Diane

Hmmm, you're right. I didn't think about the holes.

:-D I guess not everyone takes the time to play connect the dots with their horses' hides! :rofl Can make grooming more fun...

Diane

[quote="accphotography"]The pedigree (what we know of it) doesn't necessarily support it, but we've seen DW crop up in places we didn't know it was before (or at least theorized). For some reason... my gut says no. When I first saw it my mind immediately said "sabino" before I even really analyzed it. I don't think that very often so I think that says something.

I'd still like to know who the dam is though.

I'm betting Devil Begone has been known for producing some color as I've looked him up before (and that would be the only reason I would have). I have seen some color come from the Halo line, but it's usually splashy and sometimes sabino, I haven't seen any reason to think DW so far........ except if those that I thought were "splashy" are actually DW. Boy wouldn't that be interesting. However that would mean it could express much more minimally than previously thought though (DW that is).[/quote]

Here is a possible Halo line DW for you.
Shirayukihime - Sunday Silence x Wave Wind by Topsider.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/shirayukih…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here are her offspring:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/sh…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wrote a little article for the N.A. Jockey Club on that family and the details of dominant white a few years ago. I still have it and all the photos around here somewhere.

I really strongly believe it was Sunday Silence but there just isn't much evidence.