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Roan test results update *2/8/12*

TheSwingHorse May 22, 2011 February 08, 2012

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I realize a horse can't really change his genetic makeup. ;) Let me give a little back story... We have a good friend named Francisco who bred 3 of his quarter horse mares to our blue roan stallion. He had these mares boarded at a friend's house about 2 hours from us. Last year, he had to move back to El Salvador to care for his mom. While he was there, he was diagnosed with colon cancer and has been very sick. He left his horses (the andalusians) in our care and the quarter horses with this lady in Barstow. He was sending us money for a while but after a bit, it dwindled off. We spoke to him and he agreed we could sell his horses in our care to make up for our expenses. We went up to Barstow after to see what the other lady wanted to do with his other horses. She, of course, had become attached to them and wanted to keep them all. Now, this lady is not a horse person at all and really has no business owning horses. After almost a year, she contacted us asking if we wanted to buy the three foals by our stallion. But she wanted entirely too much money! Especially since we don't have the mares papers to register the foals! Last week, she contacted us again and agreed to sell the foals for a cheaper price. My partner went up and took her pick of the 3 foals. After contacting the original breeder of the mares, we got a hold of their papers so she can now register this foal. I saw this foal when he was born. He was (to me) without a doubt, a sooty buckskin and looked just like: http://equine-color.info/gallery/v/modifiers/sooty/Valentina+Foal.jpg.h… When we went to pick him up, he is extremely dark. And I'm torn as to whether he's really buckskin now. Especially since the bay colt I asked you guys about from Texas a while ago was supposed to be a sooty buckskin and turns out, he's just a sooty bay... So anyway, here is the poor kid. He's underweight a bit, needed worming and vaccines when we picked him up and their forage quality was low. Poor kid isn't even all the way shed out yet... Sire is our blue roan and dam is (undoubtedly) a dark buckskin. [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0063…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0064…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0066…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0067…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0068…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0069…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0056…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0057…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0058…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0059…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0061…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/DSC_0062…] I realize his condition is poor and judging his true color may be difficult. But does anything scream cream to you?? Oh, and these were not taken in the sunlight. Flash had to be used... Thanks everyone! [Edit]: Dam: [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/227289_2…] [IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x87/NSHC_Stock/Texas%20Colt/225887_2…] Papa: [IMG]http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv28/hoodsey_stock/Kellys%20Blue%20K…]

TheSwingHorse Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:33

Is it possible to be rabicano with only a few white hairs in the tail? He honestly has maybe 5 or 10 white hairs... the only place he has white hairs is on the underside of his mane as you can see in this video.

http://youtu.be/U6DZD-ZYvwg

Has anyone else seen something similar? Can you post examples? What would YOU call this?

Rabbit mentioned it looked similar to her silver but as far as I know, there is no silver in his pedigree. And both parents were black based so not sure how that would work out. =\ Just really curious now whats causing it.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pocos+d…

rabbitsfizz Tue, 02/14/2012 - 11:40

No, you misunderstood- I was saying I think maybe there is a "dapple" modifier that affects -for example- some Silvers, some Buckskins, and is evident for a while on some Greys- I think that is what is causing the dapples.
I do not think this horse is Roan, not at all, I don't even think it is Sabino, although it may be. I think this is just something that sometimes happens with Buckskins, and certainly happened with mine.

tjuri Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:31

Rabicano is thought to be linked to KIT last I heard. I did not know it was linked to sabino? Did I miss that?

Swinghorse: The third pic of the dam looks like she has some white hairs in the tail too - but maybe I'm seeing things? Do you have another photo of her showing the tail?

There have been rabicanos on this board with white hair in the mane, but I can't find them now. What reminds me to rabicano is the location - mainly on the flanks/belly area. :-?

I could post 2 pics of minimal rabicano hair in the tail but they are not mine. I saved them somewhere, labelled them and put them into a folder. Do you want to send a pm?

tjuri Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:17

[quote=Monsterpony]Sabino is on KIT so anything that is linked to KIT would be linked to sabino.[/quote]

Hmmm, I'm afraid I disagree if you mean what I understand with linked to. Samantha Brooks told me that it is unlikely they will find DW and sabino1 in one horse. She thinks one wild allel is needed to have a viable horse. But Splash and DW can appear together.
So that would be the same problem with rabicano then IF it is on KIT.
If it is just NEAR KIT like Tobiano, it could work out that both appear at the same time. That is what I understand being linked to each other. There are lots of horses with sabino1 AND rabicano, so they can't be linked the way I understand it.
Somewhere was a discussion about the location of tobiano and rabicano on this board. I can't locate it. If I remember right there are no tobiano horses showing rabicano roan too...??? :-?

Monsterpony Wed, 02/15/2012 - 21:41

tjuri- That is not what I mean. Sabino is a KIT mutation. Rabicano is thought to be a KIT mutation. Therefore, how they are inherited is linked. This would mean that they would not travel together unless, on the very, very rare chance of a cross over event, both mutation ended up on the same chromosome.

rodeoratdogs Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:54

So are you saying that if a horse has one KIT mutation it would in most cases not have another? I'm pretty sure that Annie is Sabino and Rabicano. Here is a picture of her line of white hairs at the top of her tail, she also has a bit of roaning at her flanks and her withers. So it's not really known then if Rabicano is really a KIT mutation or not because it does show up with other KIT mutations??? :-?

http://colorgenetics.info/equine/galler…

Daylene Alford Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:19

No, they can have two one on each chromosome. If bred they would pass one or the other but not both. The exception would be as Monster said, if their was a crossover. Considering how close together these genes would be this type of event is most likely very rare. Their have however, been cases of horses homozygous for Tobiano with SB1 (or maybe it was the other way around I'd have to find the info). So while a crossover would be very rare it could still be possible.

rodeoratdogs Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:47

Ok I get it, so it's just rare for the two to travel together one one chromosome. So if Annie is Rabicano as well as Sabino she more than likely got one from her Dam and one from her sire.

tjuri Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:04

[quote=Monsterpony]tjuri- That is not what I mean. Sabino is a KIT mutation. Rabicano is thought to be a KIT mutation. Therefore, how they are inherited is linked. This would mean that they would not travel together unless, on the very, very rare chance of a cross over event, both mutation ended up on the same chromosome.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying, I got what you mean now.

That does - however - not bring more light into my thoughts I had above... :-?

tjuri Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:08

[quote=rodeoratdogs]So are you saying that if a horse has one KIT mutation it would in most cases not have another? I'm pretty sure that Annie is Sabino and Rabicano. Here is a picture of her line of white hairs at the top of her tail, she also has a bit of roaning at her flanks and her withers. So it's not really known then if Rabicano is really a KIT mutation or not because it does show up with other KIT mutations??? :-?

http://colorgenetics.info/equine/galler…]

Thanks for sharing - nice example of a minimal rabicano-tail!

TheSwingHorse Mon, 02/20/2012 - 10:22

Hm, very interested. Maybe I'll search his tail moreso the next time he comes over. And I can't wait for spring to see how he blows this winter coat...