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Pink skin UNDER pigmented hair?

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gypsycobs
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some more pics of Bo, the

*

Danni
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I think it's weird how he has

I think it's weird how he has the patchy/mottled black skin on his boy bits, under arms etc. head is mostly black skin, at some point on his neck I assume it eventually goes pink? But then the rest of him is pink, but with obvious pally being more than just his head! The most logical answer I suppose, even if he doesn't fit normal patterns, is that he has some sort of DW/sabino? I'd love to see the skin of more heavily roaned sabinos? Or DW for that matter. At what point does the skin go pink? Obviously all white is pink skin, and lightly roaned is black skin, but who has access to heavily roaned DW's for instance? One that still have some colour? Not saying that's what he is, but until his real gold comes through it's hard to tell how much roaning he will have, he may have more than his dam making it quite extensive?

If his dam has the mottled skin from her amount of roaning, do we have close up photos of similar marked horses? Maybe it's different to normal roan, and DW say can cause partial depigmentation in the skin of mostly solid coloured, slighted roaned areas??

If it wasn't for his dark patchy skin on his privates I'd say test for champagne or pearl, but the effect is only on his body so not pointing towards a dilution from what I can work out. Which means it has to be from white patterns of some sort? Maybe Lp, but why is it only in certain areas? Not that I'm familiar with Lp to know how it works that well, just my thoughts!
Cheers

Danni

gypsycobs
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Hey Danni The pink skin is

Hey Danni :-H
The pink skin is every where. The black around his eyes is minimal, its only an incredibly heavily mottled eye liner if that makes sense? Its not on his head, nor his neck. I was hugging him yesterday, needing some horse love with loosing little Mokie and I noticed two or three pally coat spots where his winter wool is starting to shift. I don't know if its his coat starting to darken or its actually Lp spots????
The fact that he has pigmented hair over pink skin has really got me stumped, he hardly has ANY white on him, about as much as a minimally marked tobi cob would have

Danni
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Hey G'day Mel!! Your boy is

Hey G'day Mel!! Your boy is certainly a puzzle!! I think I see what you mean re the dark around his eyes, it's more that the mottling just gets more pigmented there? Which is natural for a lot of naturally occuring patterns to want more colour around the eyes etc.

But I still say the dark skin on his privates points to no dilitions, champangnes and pearls seem to have overall lighter skin.

I'm looking forward too seeing him in a dark coat, which may take a while seeing as he probably think it's coming into a UK winter about now :roll: :grin:

gypsycobs
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I don't get what you mean? I

I don't get what you mean?
I think I see what you mean re the dark around his eyes, it's more that the mottling just gets more pigmented there? Which is natural for a lot of naturally occuring patterns to want more colour around the eyes etc.

I don't know what he is colour wise, all I DO know is he has soooo MUCH pink skin that he should be thinking seriously about buying shares in a sun screen company!

I wish I had a bunch of mares that had a "white suppressant gene" to put him over to see what comes out :-?

Danni
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I just mean mean that his

I just mean mean that his colour, to me indicates a white pattern gene (wether Lp, DW, Sb etc.) rather than champagne or pearl. If he was champagne or pearl I'd expect those very few dark patches of his to be diluted, or at least not so different from the rest of him, ie it would be more uniform.

Hey Dirty hasn't a white hair on her, she's great white supressor, you can use her to experiment any time :angel

gypsycobs
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Oh dur yes of cause re the

Oh dur yes of course re the above, sorry... I just couldn't follow before (bit slow on the uptake, we lost Kesali and Sweeps baby last night... with the hospital and all it was a bit Chance all over again on top of it all)

Bo might turn off ladies if he has to have a date with Dirty if she decides he is a stupid child or not to her liking :rofl

Daylene Alford
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I wanted to add that at least

I wanted to add that at least some of his pink skin is probably caused by a regular white pattern. Like under his front leg.

CMhorses, That is such a cool picture thanks for sharing.

gypsycobs
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admin wrote:I wanted to add

I wanted to add that at least some of his pink skin is probably caused by a regular white pattern. Like under his front leg.

CMhorses, That is such a cool picture thanks for sharing.

Yeah totally agree, it's just the pink skin under the pigmented hair that has me so stumped. I really just want to know HOW that happens.. I fee llike this when I try and find reference to it on the net in my search for an explanation, and also as I have been told by various people that its impossible
:BH

Daylene Alford
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Quote:I have been told by

I have been told by various people that its impossible

Well obviously THAT isn't true. :rofl

Yes, it can be very frustrating to find information on something that is so rare simply because it is so rare.

Another thing that should be considered, it is possible that it isn't really caused by anything color related. It could be something that happened in utero and while extremely interesting, won't be inherited.

Danni
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gypsycobs wrote:Bo might turn

Bo might turn off ladies if he has to have a date with Dirty, if she decides he is a stupid child or not to her liking :rofl

Oh Dirty is easy, she either loves them and can't get enough, or I wouldn't get her within half a paddock of Bo for him to even notice!! Not shy about her tastes *wench*

gypsycobs
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admin wrote:Quote:Another

[quote=admin]

Another thing that should be considered, it is possible that it isn't really caused by anything color related. It could be something that happened in utero and while extremely interesting, won't be inherited.

Hmmmmmmm %-(

:rofl anythings possible... the mind boggles

I do know a lot of Shambo (his sire's) babies are born very white, I wonder if any of those have pink skin too?

Danni
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admin wrote:Quote:Yes, it can

[quote=admin]

Yes, it can be very frustrating to find information on something that is so rare simply because it is so rare.
Another thing that should be considered, it is possible that it isn't really caused by anything color related. It could be something that happened in utero and while extremely interesting, won't be inherited.

Yes that's true, that's why I wish I has more access to cobs with similar markings to the dam, just to see if it is totally unusual

The part I find the most weird is not just the pink skin under pigmented hair, it's that combined with the darker mottled skin on the same horse!

gypsycobs
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Danni wrote:The part I find

The part I find the most weird is not just the pink skin under pigmented hair, it's that combined with the darker mottled skin on the same horse!

Hey are you still on heaps of the GC forums? If I was to get you a bunch of photos, if you needed more and sent the ones of his mum when they come through can you 'spam' them to see what you come up with?
His Mum's skin is sorta tan, like a new born chestnut baby. We should ask Jen if she has ever come across anything similar and see IF she gets back to us LOL

Danni
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Yeh I was thinking of asking

Yeh I was thinking of asking Jen, it's a lot of detailed photos I'm wanting though, not sure of my chances!
And yeh I can try with the other guys, still on most of the GC forums even if a lot less active

gypsycobs
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Maybe I will get Darlene to

Maybe I will get Darlene to bug her for me too.

Yo know how you get some Cobs with sabino who pretty much loose pigment in their coats as they get older? It's almost like the EXACT opposite is happening, know what I mean? He was white as a baby like so many other Shambo babies and is slowly gaining pigment in his coat as he ages.
But re the reverse sabino like effect I was looking at the baby photos Brigid sent and his skin has increased in pigmentation and he has more body colour than he had when I first met him, but the latter can happen with dilutes anyway as we know.

Threnody
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CM thanks so much for sharing

CM thanks so much for sharing those pics they rock! ^_^ (color genetics geek out)

gypsycobs
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I have

:argue ~X( ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I have received something from a lady who has have a few pink skinned isabella palomino horses and had NO idea what was going on with the pigmented hair on pink skin... turns out they ALL carried silver BUT because they were all chestnut based horses she had there was never a silver foal born.
Does anyone know ANYTHING about that theory????

accphotography
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Unfortunately I am unable to

Unfortunately I am unable to see your photos of him for some reason. I'd like to see before commenting but I would say it just sounds like extensive palomino mottling to me. Champagne crossed my mind but if his sheath is dark that's unlikely. I have, however, seen pale palominos who were nearly pink everywhere except for their hairless areas (muzzle, around the eyes, sheath, etc.). One of the palest palominos I've ever seen also had tremendous mottling (in his case mostly pink skin with some dark freckling) and he too tested positive for silver. That might be worth considering. It's not supposed to affect red bases but I know a few people who have theorized it will still affect eyes, hooves and maybe skin (just not the hair coat).

Once I see the pics (hopefully) maybe I'll be able to make an input on the DW idea. Thanks for pointing me over here Admin, I'd love to see this guy. FWIW I could see the parents photos just fine, just not the photos of Bo at the top of this page.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

gypsycobs
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Thank you so much to everyone

Thank you so much to everyone who has been putting so much effort into this for me

accphotography, do the photos of Bo on the first page (2 page post) not work either?

If you are on FaceBook his album is here and I have made it public. There are photos of Bo, his sire - dam - grandam and paternal siblings along with his full sister.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?se...

Re being a possible silver carrier... I have been hunting around on line (because it's on the internet it must be true right ymwhisle ) anyway, I have found both photos and literature regarding silver and cream on a red base and Bo does fit the descriptions. I have previously wondered about roan with Bo as he has a darker head, however neither parent is roan so I dismissed it, turns out that a lot of silver/cream/reds have a darker head and such a pale body as to look like they are cremellos, often times pink skin is also present.

gypsycobs
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reposting all the photos,

reposting all the photos, hopefully this helps. These are all of Bo. He had blue eyes for quite a while and was born white.

gypsycobs
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This is his full sister

This is his full sister

Daylene Alford
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Are you planning to test for

Are you planning to test for silver now???? :bounce :bounce :bounce :grin:

gypsycobs
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sire; pally dam; Chestnut G

sire; pally
dam; Chestnut
G Dam; Brown

gypsycobs
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admin wrote:Are you planning

Are you planning to test for silver now???? :bounce :bounce :bounce :grin:

Probably... AFTER I rob a bank, all this testing adds up LOL

gypsycobs
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Some Shambo foals, I have a

Some Shambo foals, I have a lot more photos of others. Basically just to show you how light they are when young. The chestnut roan and sabino stallion, he still has black skin under his pigment.
The last boy, he is out of my colts grandam who is the brown mare pictured above.

Danni
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Oh, wouldn't that be cool if

Oh, wouldn't that be cool if he has silver!! I just properly looked at your pictures too CM, that's really rather cool. It shows that pigmented hair is definitely possible over mottled skin anyway!!

gypsycobs
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yeah I'm defiantly going to

yeah I'm defiantly going to test for silver now - Palomino carrying silver is the ONLY reference I can find anywhere that explains pink through pale tan skin and pigmented hair along with a very light shade of cream with eyes that have stayed baby blue longer etc, etc.
A lady on the Dilutes Australia FB page just responded with the same thing to re one of her horses

"Tania Paget
Hi Melinda.... I just wonder if perhaps the dam may be chestnut but carrying the silver gene.. I bred a palomino silver who was very pale palomino, but because he was chestnut based the silver was hard to detect, but upon looking we noticed ...this funny mottling, purplish tinged skin, and tan rather then black hooves. He is DNA tested as a silver palomino. I know there are silvers in the gypsy breed so it is possible. A lot of your colts mottling however would be due to the sabino gene..."

gypsycobs
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Here are a couple of silver

Here are a couple of silver cream fillies in America.

Daylene Alford
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This had me wondering...I've

This had me wondering...I've never heard any references to silver and cream adding more/different mottling in black based horses. If it is affecting the skin it "should" affect both black and red based horses. I suppose you could chock it up to black suppression but I would expect it to show at least a little?

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