The Colors of Life

You are here

Head scratcher TBC...

39 posts / 0 new
Last post
Heather
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Head scratcher TBC...
I got a call tonight about 2 local QHs that produced and Appaloosa..I will be finding out who they are ( registered ) and get pics...it might take a week or so befor I get to the bottom of it. The are reining bred Ive been told.
accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

NICE!!!! :bounce :bounce :bounce :bounce

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

critterkeeper
critterkeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 3 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Oh wow - how awesome. I can't wait for the details and the pixs .... :bounce :bounce :bounce

Kylene "A dog has lots of friends because he wags his tail and not his tongue." ~ Anonymous

Heather
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

it migth be next weekend before i can get a "date" to see the animals(cross fingers!), all claim this is legit and not an accident DNA yada yada, stumbled onto this head scratcher as a friend and I have met this guy that is selling a bunch of Shining Spark "grand" offspring as he is very ill has the big "C" and this is a friend of his that is close by and they promised to let me get out with camera and data on this. I cant wait to see, I will keep pestering them to see this..but I have to work like an animal the rest of this week with hubby and this weekend maybe, but I will make time if she can get me over there.

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Prior to the AQHA removing their excessive white restriction, I would hazard that any such critter as what you're describing were previously gelded (if colt) and sold off as grades, and/or hardshipped into the ApHC as being of "unknown" parentage. Now that AQHA is allowing these horses to be registered, it's going to be interesting to see the pedigree links back to the "hidden" critter in the woodpile...

Diane

lipigirl
lipigirl's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 4 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

This sounds very interesting ! Can't wait to see what happens.

Heather
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

I will get this whole story but their comment was that "this had not happen since the 70s" so they had some discussion with AQHA I guess about it ect. I will get my nosy self involved LOL since its only one town over.

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Please do, since there are apparently 6 appaloosa-coloured horses now registered with AQHA, the most "famous" being Reminic in Spots.

Diane

dakotakdq
dakotakdq's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 3 months ago
Joined: 03/11/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

wow very interesting!

NZ do you ahve pics of Remnic in SPots? i havent heard of him yet

[color=#800080][b]http://lenzoperformancehorses.webs.com/[/b][/color]
[color=#0000FF][url]http://www.freewebs.com/etongrove[/url] [/color]
Eton Grove Stud is the is home of:
Amaroo Forgotton Hero (QH) & Lazy D Rocks Golddigger (QH/ASH)

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Interesting!! Can't wait for more details & pics!!

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

wow very interesting!

NZ do you ahve pics of Remnic in SPots? i havent heard of him yet


I found this but no pics yet.
http://downthefence.com/index.php?option..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

No, I can't seem to find photos either, but I know someone has to, since there was a motion before the BoD for the March meeting about allowing appaloosa-coloured AQHA-registered horses full registration rights in the ApHC.

Diane

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Here ya go:
IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/ReminicInSpots.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Amazingly cool!! Thanks ACC!!

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Here ya go:
IMAGE(http://www.reinersworld.com/forsale/images/ReminicInSpots.jpg)

Thanks for that...no two doubts he's sporting an appaloosa blanket!

Diane

TwinCreeksFarm
TwinCreeksFarm's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Wow! Now does anybody have pictures of his parents?

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Photo of his grandsire is in his allbreed pedigree page...

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/reminic+..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Diane

critterkeeper
critterkeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 3 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

I checked out all the pixs I could on allbreed (love that feature btw) and other than a few birdcatcher spots here and there (mostly up around the shoulders for some reason) there isn't any sporting more than 4 boots and face white... :-\ ;)

Kylene "A dog has lots of friends because he wags his tail and not his tongue." ~ Anonymous

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

There's a thread on allbreed discussing him: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/node/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whnywriter is Frank Holmes...he's a rather clued-in horse historian, specialty being QHs and apps, and he's an app breeder.

Diane

Heather
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Im wonderin about mutation or an inactive gene that gets active?grasping? is this how the color came about? I have worked all weekend but I will be getting up with these folks soon...I plan on going to see their other shining spark grand kids they have for sale...it seems that these "pop" ups are coming from reining blood. I find that intresting.

Daylene Alford
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Joined: 02/12/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

I think what we're finding is that LP can be very minimal...so minimal as to be easily missed (kinda like LWO can be very minimal). When you get one horses with minimal LP and one with a hidden PATN then you have a 25% change of getting a patterned foal.

rabbitsfizz
rabbitsfizz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: 02/16/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

That's interesting....and it actually makes sense!!
We already knowthis happens with LWO, so it sets a precedent for it happening in some other area....we also know that it happens with Splash and Sabino, hence the "crop outs" that spontaneously happen in breeds not known to carry pattern, like TBs and Arabs, so why not Appy??
This does not explain "my" mare, who was bred to a stallion that carried no Appy at all, and had an Appy foal....she has the barest of characteristics, it was only when the foal arrived that we even thought to look hard!!!

website: please come and visit... http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/

Daylene Alford
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Joined: 02/12/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

I think it does explain your mare and foal Rabbit. I think it means the stallion carried a PATN gene. If it is true (as it has been theroized) that PATN does not exhibit unless LP is pressent then it is possible that PATN is found in many non "appy" bloodlines and breeds. I guess we probably won't know for sure until LP is actually located.

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Reminic Ringo (Reminic in Spots' sire):
IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/ReminicRingoAd2.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

Well, he's got facial white, so it would appear that he may have provided the PATN gene(s) needed to show off the Lp...which, IIRC, seems to be coming down the dam's side, from the discussion on allbreed.

Diane

vneerland
vneerland's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 1 month ago
Joined: 02/18/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

How about his 'sorrel' status also being to 'blame' here? :?
We know that black often inhibits the expressions of white. This sire should be ee (according to the flyer) but............... :shock:

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

That horse doesn't look chestnut to me. That mane and tail is very odd as are the legs. I see spots on the horses side as have two other people I've shown the photo to. I suspect this is the LP culprit. I find that odd though considering how well known his lines are, unless it trailed in on the tail female side.

I'd love to find a photo of the mare. I'm working on it but haven't gotten very far.

Diane what are you saying about his face white? You lost me.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

rabbitsfizz
rabbitsfizz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: 02/16/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

OK, bear with me....
What you are suggesting is that Patn wanders around happily in any horse whatsoever, but only is of any use when it bumps into Lp??
Thus it can be present , and useless, in any colour/pattern horse, any breed but only expresses when attached to Lp??
So why did it evolve if it has no purpose?? :sign

Or is it a totally random thing??

You may have noticed that I am having a hard time understanding the theory around Appies :-??

website: please come and visit... http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/

RiddleMeThis
RiddleMeThis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: 03/08/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

So why did it evolve if it has no purpose?? :sign

Or is it a totally random thing??

You may have noticed that I am having a hard time understanding the theory around Appies :-??

I would assume since it has no purpose and does nothing, in the wild (if it started there) there was nothing that made horses with PATN easier targets or not easy targets.

It mutated and then produced no visible effects so never got bred out or killed off.

Does that make sense?

IMAGE(http://alterna-tickers.com/tickers/generated_tickers/i/ikmc9z103.png)

Daylene Alford
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Joined: 02/12/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

The vast majority of mutations are in fact harmful and there are many many more that are neutral. In the wild the harmful mutations do get weeded out and the beneficial ones thrive but if you happen to have a neutral mutation there is nothing to prevent it from becomming widespread even if it does no real good.

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Head scratcher TBC...

OK, bear with me....
What you are suggesting is that Patn wanders around happily in any horse whatsoever, but only is of any use when it bumps into Lp??
Thus it can be present , and useless, in any colour/pattern horse, any breed but only expresses when attached to Lp??
So why did it evolve if it has no purpose?? :sign

Or is it a totally random thing??

You may have noticed that I am having a hard time understanding the theory around Appies :-??

What I think is that PATN isn't one gene, but is a complex of "helper" genes, which may or may not include sabino and splash (and which may be why finding sabino and splash have been so problematic...), which control the level of expression of tobiano, frame, Lp, and whatever else may be out there.

As to "why"? I am still of the belief that broken patterning developed by way of natural selection as "horse camo". As horses moved from warm savannahs into cold steppes, the white/colour pattern of frame, tobiano and appaloosa would have worked with areas that had spotty snow.

This is all conjecture of course, since we can't even pinpoint exactly where appaloos colouring first originated with early evidence being in China AND earlier evidence being in Europe (various cave art drawings).

Diane

Pages

pandemonium