ugh, this is not cut and dried at all

Maybe you could speak with them honestly and diplomaticly about the issues around the house. Explaine that this is very nerve racking to you and rather than it getting out of hand, ruining the relationship that you all have, you want to give them notice and move out. Dont mention your brother and after they move your bro can move in. maybe give them 30-60 days? It is a tough situation....

Either way if it isnt addresed you might blow your top and the relationship will be ruined anyway. I know Im a neet freak and I would be very annoyed if I had to constantly pick up after others. :hammer

I would have a frank discussion with them. If they can't/won't help out with household chores then they'll need to find somewhere else to live. And if the dog continues to use your room as a bathroom area, it won't be allowed in the house. It's a matter of respect and if they want to have a place to live they need to start acting like room mates instead of your kids.
What is the timeframe your brother wants to move in? Do you have room for all of them?
You can tell them your brother needs a place to stay and while you hate to ask them to move, he's your brother and you feel morally responsible to help him :laugh1 :laugh1

Also, having a roommate living with us is trying sometimes. But I don't think it's odd they don't use their own dishes. Where would they put all of it? I couldn't imagine Tim's stuff in with ours... But me thinks you may be a bit more meticulous than I am :D

Yiiikesssss.
WELL, I would give them 2 months to find a new place. Say your brother needs you and a place to live right now for obvious reasons. It's a matter of desperately needing to help a family member out, hopefully they'll understand. I can sympathize with not wanting to ruin the other relationships, but quite frankly it's something that seems (to me) to be a no brainer and something that needs to happen, for a lot of good reasons. They only thing that I would actually feel bad about is that they [i]did [/i]buy out their other lease just to live there...
Hopefully they can act like adults about this.

My brother is stopping by today to see if there is an area of my house that can be closed off into another bedroom. My house is large, over 3,000 square feet, but the whole main floor is that "open and airy" deal where the mud room flows into the kitchen which flows into the dining room which flows into the living area/office. If something can be framed into a bedroom I might be able to fit everyone. He needs a place in the next 30 days or so.

I HATE having talks like this with people. Especially when it seems painfully obvious. (Do you really think someone would need to be told to wipe up something that appears to be BUTTER smeared on the counter??) To answer one question, there is plenty of room for another set of dishes and flatware in my kitchen. I actually have three full dish sets and two sets of flatware but there's still room. And of course the dishes they like to use are the good ones ($$$) from Pottery Barn. I know if I had to move in with someone and had no dishes, at the very least I would ask before I used any, and ask which ones were the best to use.

I'm really tempted to use the family member in need excuse to boot them. I mean, if I have to tell them to put their own dishes in the dishwasher I don't think there is any way they are ever going to help me keep the house the way I want it. It will be a constant nagging chore. I'm not a total neat freak (I'm too busy for that! I do live with a certain amount of clutter...) but the KITCHEN!! It's kind of the showpiece of my house.

But yeah, the part I feel the worst about is their old lease. :(

I agree with the others...use the old family comes first tatic and hope that works that way you wont upset them and can stay friends.

In the meantime, (I would not expect them to buy crockery but would expect them to clean it and keep other areas clean too - the dog is beyond belief !!!)...I would hint to them that they need to do thier own dishes and or ask them to help you clean. I am a real dog lover but I would be mortified if one of my dogs did that !!!! :oops:

This may be a stupid question.... but what is a mud room? just remember I am in florida LOL.... :rofl

EEK and I just wanted to add I cant find any excuse for dirty nasty mess. YUCK clean ur mess up!!! I am not OCD but there is no excuse for filth... :o

It's a little room for taking your boots and stuff off without tracking dirt into the house.

lol Jodi! It's an old farm house and you know on a farm you always come in the back door, never the front. (I nearly have a heart attack when anyone comes to the front!) So that first room you come into at the back of the house where you take off your boots is the mud room. Mine is ridiculously big though and ends up being the clutter gatherer. It's at least the size of two horse stalls and I fully admit THAT part of my house is a total mess at the moment. :lol: :oops:

(Morgan and I were posting at the same time...)

:rofl :rofl :rofl Dang I needed to learn that term along time ago!!!!!! I always had a shoe basket at the door which the hubby always ingored and i went insane scrubing the white tile floor1 hahahahahahhah! I feel really stupid! Oh and Sara I had a shot of vodka with my dinner :D

Wait, what? How did you know about me and vodka? Oh that's right... it's in the shout box. I had a shot of vodka FOR dinner last night. Hmm, I take that back. I had an early dinner of Indian take-out (early for me is eating any time before 9 PM and last night I actually ate around 6:30) and the vodka was during my usual dinner time.

hahahahhaah I had indian for lunch today! love me some indian...When I said I had my vodka shot I forgot to mention I really didnt eat my dinner.. LOL :D Ok so lets poll who loves Indian??? and what is your fav....I obviously need a job hahahahaha

Malai kofta!!! I also like mutter paneer and palak paneer. And naan....mmmmm naan.

paneer and naan bread oh yummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is where I go to for lunch! The Saag paneer is my fav!
http://indiajax.com/vegetarian.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as I know I've never eaten Indian food....I wonder if there is even a place in Fort Smith? I'll have to look and see...

I agree with the idea of using your brother as an excuse. In my experience, if ADULTS in their 20's haven't learned how to be responsible for their own messes by now, they are not going to learn simply because you talk to them about it. I bet they help out for a while and then just slack off again. They are taking advantage of you--not to be mean, but just because their parents never taught them to be respectful of other people in this way. That's not your problem, and you shouldn't have to deal with it.

Obviously you don't want to ruin your relationship with the woman (I will not call her a girl, as she is an adult and should be expected to behave as such, IMO), so your brother's situation is a perfect excuse. If you explain the situation to her, tell her that obviously you need to help out your family, and give them a generous two months to find another place, that should be MORE than enough to keep her happy. (If it isn't, then she has more issues than you thought, and if she would be mad at you for this, she is not the kind of person you want in your barn anyway.)

That's what I'd do, anyway. And the dog thing is unacceptable. I'd be mortified, and lock the dog outside before I let it poop in my landlord's bedroom. Disgusting.

Wouldn't your mudroom be able to be converted into a living space at least temporarily. If you put up a wall of some sort leaving room to get from the back door to the kitchen, that would be a good sized area, yes? I can sympathize on living with an adult that hasn't grown up. One of my roommates is generally a nice guy, but sometimes I want to kill him when I find him using metal utensils/knives on my expensive cookware or when he doesn't clean up after himself (which is more often than not). He also doesn't seem to have the ability to hit the toilet all the time (*gag*). There are other things too and unfortunately I have found that talking to him about it does nothing at all. He is one of those "plays dumb" types- "what do you mean the floor needs to be cleaned from where I spilled stuff? I spilled stuff?" :roll: :roll:

Late to the party...but I hope I can help.

In 2006 my husband and I "took-in" his baby sister ([i]keep in mind, she was at least 37 when she came out[/i]!) to help her out of a rough patch. She did 2 months of: NOTHING but eat our food, sleep and watch TV. Then, her husband ([i]whom she married in a civil ceremony 3 dys before she flew out[/i]) flew out to join her. Granted, he got a job w/in 3 dys of landing...and when I finally said something, she got a job, too. They paid for *nothing* other than the majority of their own food and did not assist with cooking/cleaning.
Anyway...she was in our home for 9mo, and they were both in our home together for 7mo...meanwhile, I learned they had gone to the GA Aquarium ($35/ticket), matinee movies, he bought expensive clothes, a $300 Harley Davidson mini-fridge to offer beverages to his clients AND a $500 Palm Pilot. THEN, they had the nerve to say they felt we were treating them like "slave labor" by requesting ([i]usually w/out a please on my part, but always a TY when it was done[/i]) specific chores be done. So...I told them since it seemed everyone was getting a little grumpy, and they *had* been here for more than 6mo to save money, how about they move out next weekend. Hm?
I got this: :sad
...but they moved out w/in 3 weeks. Then, 2wks later he lost his job, 2mo after that they lost their apartment and asked if they could move back in. I think I shocked them when I told them I was not going to rearrange my home again for them ([i]husband and I sleep in seperate rooms because of his snoring and while they were here, he gave up that room and slept on the couch[/i]), I didn't want them camping in my LR and I could let them put a matress in the garage, but if it rained, the matress had to be moved so my Corvette could be parked inside. They decided to pursue other options, which didn't pan out, and we ended up buying them 2 one-way plane tickets. Hers to California, his to Florida.

First: ...Their dog needs to be on a leash attached to *them* if it is not closed in their room or a kennel/crate. That is BS!
PS: [i]If you find dog crap in your room; pick it up, place it on a paper plate or in a paper sack and put it in *their* room to deal with.[/i] Oh! That felt [u]so[/u] [u]good[/u] to write that! :lol:
Finally: ...Since you do not like confrontation, I would play the "family-in-need" card. Do NOT say you will divide the house more to 'keep' them, because I think they need to go. [i]You are NOT their Mommy there to pick up after them.[/i] Tell them you are very sorry they bought out of a lease to move in with you, but you really MUST help your brother because he is family. Do give them 30-60 days to relocate. Maybe offer to halve the lease cost on the horse during this time to help them save/move? ...that may be enough to help her not get her nose pushed out of joint and save your working-relationship.
Best of luck,
heidi

[quote="horsegen"]That's what I'd do, anyway. And the dog thing is unacceptable. I'd be mortified, and lock the dog outside before I let it poop in my landlord's bedroom. Disgusting.[/quote]

And horsegen, you know as much as anyone what it's like to have a yucky dog in the house! I finally got rid of the pooping Chihuahua... only to trade her for a pooping Basset Hound!!

You guys have given me some great points to work with. I need to chat some more with my brother to get his timing and will go from there.

The divorce is really so sad. My brother is much older than I am so I have known his wife since I was in 4th grade. I've known for years that the marriage was going south though. Oddly, I am now friends with the Polish woman on facebook. She has written on my wall. If the whole family does not know about things yet, they will soon when they see this. (I think my brother confides in me first.)

[quote="Jodi"]This may be a stupid question.... but what is a mud room? just remember I am in florida LOL.... :rofl

EEK and I just wanted to add I cant find any excuse for dirty nasty mess. YUCK clean ur mess up!!! I am not OCD but there is no excuse for filth... :o[/quote]

I LOVE OCD roommates! You wanna move here? :laugh1 My gay BIL moved in for about a year. He was great for cleaning the house!
Mike and I are slobs. Not cat collector gross slobs, but I can't keep up with laundry to save my life and luckily I make the kids do the dishes! :laugh1

HEHEHE Andrea and quite funny cause I am cleaning like a mad woman at the moment. :laugh1 I am changing the sheets, doing my laundry, and the hard wood floors are going to be the death of me. There isnt any carpet in this house save for area rugs.
Hey I have an Idea spring for a trip out to see you and Ill be your maid for a few weeks :toast

I would not take this, and I too HATE confrontation, but this is too much, it really is.
However gently you phrase it this woman is going to have a hissy fit as she is obviously too immature to think that she could possibly be at fault, so I would just tell her it's not working out, and she has to leave.
There is every chance, of course, that she will just not go, so I would start now, and in a week give her written notice and then just put everything in storage in her name and change all the locks.....you should do that anytime someone leaves, BTW I found that out the hard way!!!!
You only have two bedrooms???
Wow!!
But I agree you should not get your brother to section off more room as they will never go, then, NEVER!!!
And I very much doubt your brother is going to get on with them, so there are going to be some arguments and bad feeling.
No, the relationship with these two is destroyed anyway, just give them written notice...that way at least you have proof that you have asked them to leave.
Your family comes first.

It's not so much that I hate confrontation -- it's just certain situations. At work I've been forbidden to speak with customers because I'm too blunt, and I know my ex (Blonde Thing) thought I was over-the-top confrontational, but this is all just sticky and complicated.

I actually have three bedrooms (the couple is in the master suite, my kids each have a bedroom, and I've turned my basement into a studio type bedroom as well). You're right -- adding another will just prolong the misery. And if the psychology student doesn't get that I have to put family first she won't be worth much as a therapist later, I think. I guess I'm just going to have to do it and see where things land as far as the leased horse, her lessons, and the students she teaches here.

Okay, straight to the point and blunt...tell the current roommates they have /xyz time frame/ in which to make other living arrangments as your brother is need of a place to live with his fiancee. And family comes first! Then, draw up a contract stating out exactly who is responsible for what, what sort of chores are considered "communal" (dishes, grocery shopping, housecleaning, etc.) and thus are to be done by the residents, and what sort of chores (i.e., mucking, feeding out, etc.) can be swappable for rent and utilities.

On the groceries, I have done both the "we share the food/we share the costs", (but that's always been when there's just me and one other roommate who was also a friend) and the "we have two fridges, this one's mine, that one's yours". You need to figure out which would work better...in light of your kids and his fiancee, I'm thinking the two fridge thing and dividing cupboards might be the best way to start, especially if money's gonna be tight for one or the other party. And with the expense of bring someone over from Europe, filing all the appropriate immigration fees, and getting married within 90 days of her arrival in the US (is he aware of this necessity? altho' the law might have changed since I last looked, prior to us deciding me to NZ was the way to go).

Housework requires a chart with that many people. One thing that has always worked for me, if y'all are having communal meals, the cook doesn't do the dishes. However, that doesn't give the cook free-range to be a pig when cooking (maybe MP can help me get the hubby to realise that, while she's here! :laugh1 ). Laundry is "do your own", nobody gets to leave a load sitting in the washer/dryer, and folding needs to be done in each person's 'own space' (unless you really have room).

Since in essence, you will be two "units" living together (him and fiancee, you and kids), you might want to consider just a straight, down the middle split in two of utility costs. Have him get his own internet account. If he gets his own telephone connection, then he doesn't use yours at all. If he uses his just for internet, then he still pays half the cost of the current telephone costs. GET A TOLL BAR, that prevents long distance calling. She can use a calling card to make calls back home, they also tend to be cheaper than using your normal phone server.

Good luck!

Diane

I'd suggest you say your brother and his fiancee need some where to move in asap and being family you can't turn him down. I'd state that the fiancee is going to help you around the house and with the horses so it will be of great benefit as you could really use the extra help. You need them to be out before your brother and his fiancee arrive by this date ..... Perhaps until then, you could reduce their rent to help them afford to move? From now on though, I'd not do anything for them but ask them to do it themselves. It may start to click in why they're moving when they have to start cleaning up for themselves.

They may have paid out a lease to move in with you but if they're pigs, which it sounds like they are, it's their own fault that they're to look for somewhere new to live. You don't owe them for moving in as it was their choice and their responsibility for showing you and your house the respect you deserve. The dog pooing in your room and her attitude is just crap (pun intended haha).

I wish you well but if you do lose the friendship after trying not to, it's not your fault but theirs.

Diane makes some very good points....and I think I am your Mother, BTW!!!
I am never allowed to talk to people, and I am not allowed to take the puppy class now either because I thin the class out in no time flat, honestly I can deal with a difficult horse and I can deal with some truly difficult dogs (don't get me started on the "white" GSD I am working with at the moment) and I'm a bit of a sucker with kids....but adults really need to get their act together, I feel (How do you deal with a 38 year old woman who calls her Ridgeback dog not by saying "come on, good lad" but by saying "come on baby come to mummy" [I kid you not!!])
So Yes, I am blunt and in your face but I also do hate confrontation of this sort, which is why I suggested you gave them written notice.
I think the idea of a rota is great, but be prepared that once you have asked them to leave they will not do a thing, including keeping the dog out of your room and paying rent, which is why I feel the relationship is in the pan anyway!!!
Boy, have I had some WEORD lodgers in my time!!! :booty

[quote]and I think I am your Mother, BTW!!![/quote]

Awww, I feel all warm.

Diane does make some very good points. I must pin my brother down on some things soon so I can get moving on whatever the plan will be. I've shared living space with him before, by the way, since I moved in with him when I was getting a divorce. We work well together.

I just took my current roommate's dog out to go potty, by the way. I think they figure since I'm home all day I'm also the dog sitter, and sometimes I do have time to hang out with their dog a little, but today they've been gone for twelve hours so far and he was shut in their room all that time. No wonder he doesn't understand his potty training. :(

bah, whatever. They are so getting kicked out now. It's almost 10:30 PM Oregon time and they've been gone since first thing this morning. I know the woman has class and clients on Saturday morning and afternoon but the guy doesn't work on Saturdays and they've both been gone. I got no text or phone call or anything regarding "we're out longer than we expected, can you take out the dog?" Poor dog.

I'm sure they think I just skip around the farm all day with the dogs. Nothing better to do, right? It's like being a stay at home mom. I just watch tv and eat candy all day! Of course I have time to watch their dog too!

One of your most basic mistakes here is calling these people your "room mates"
They are not.
They are [i]your[/i]lodgers, nothing more.
It is always a mistake to allow a friendship to get in the way of common sense.
When she moved in with me my friend drew up a four page contract which we both signed saying what we were each responsible for and what sort of notice to quit we had to give etc etc.
We were friends and, even though she moved out two years ago, we are still friends, and I personally put that down to the fact that we had a four page contract!!!
She gave me a moths notice, but asked if, in fact she could move in a week and offered to pay for the three weeks owing.
I declined but it was all SO civilised it's not true.
We both knew exactly where we stood all the way through.
I really think you should have a contract with your brother as he is bringing in an "unknown quantity" into this relationship and she may turn into a monster with three heads the minute she is ensconced in your house!!
Listen to your mother, child!!! :rofl