They so don't care...

What is N/H again?
I don't think any of those stallions didn't have sickle hocks.Balloon chest had posty legs too...yuck, how any horse like that actually wins in world shows is beyond me.

Edit: Never mind! I looked it up. Also I think I figured out why these people think its good to have HYPP positive horses. I [i]think[/i] they think that it increases muscle mass when according to AQHA it does not.
[quote] We were curious as to what effect the gene would have on muscle mass, which is just one of the qualities that are selected for in halter horses. We studied muscle cell (muscle fiber) diameter and muscle fiber type distribution (slow twitch and fast twitch fibers) in HYPP positive and negative horses. We found no relationship between large muscle diameter and the gene mutation. There was no difference in muscle fiber types between HYPP-positive and HYPP-negative horses. While there may be some other effect the mutation has on the appearance of muscle that we could not measure (for example, an
increase in muscle tone), the appearance of heavy muscling is regulated by a separate group of genes. Impressive had numerous qualities, including excellent conformation, which gave him tremendous success in the halter ring.[/quote]

:BH
You can even get a horse with good bulk without any impressive at all, it just takes a skillfull crossing of the right old style buldog with the taller TB types. And bulk should not by any means be the main goal in a halter horse. :? You need the horse to hold it up well or they just look wierd. Take Mighty Awesome, who passed away earlier this year, that was a good looking horse, and huge, without Impressive.

Re: might awesome...the barlink horses I have come across recently are friggin huge. The pics of them often dont do them justice as to just how big they really are..they could be sold for steaks LOL

[b]Yeah, I came across that site, I think, last week.
I was absolutely disgusted with the stallion...talk about a freak of nature. Like a few others too!
His legs just add to it, they're just horrible.
But that seems to be what a lot of "halter" people look for.[/b]

[quote="Heather"]Re: might awesome...the barlink horses I have come across recently are friggin huge. The pics of them often dont do them justice as to just how big they really are..they could be sold for steaks LOL[/quote]
:rofl

I really love that filly. She has this amazing shine to her coat that's like... not shine, but shimmer or something. Just stunning.

[quote="Heather"]..they could be sold for steaks LOL[/quote]
I *think* I came across this little nugget at another Horse site. Someone posted a bit of a *vent* about a foreign (France) judge, judging a 4-H halter class...and when asked why he placed the class the way he did....he said: "I placed first the horse I'd most like to see on my plate."
:shock:
...someone else commented about this, and I can see the similarities...but it does seem like our 'halter' horses DO look like cattle that have been fitted for showing and placing-to-win in the meat-market classes. ;) ...and the innocent comments even seem to uphold the theory: 'He's *beefy*, ain't he?' 'What a *beef-cake*, huh?' :mrgreen:

That stallion has Moobs - (man boobs !!!) - that is so NOT attractive - yikes !! :shock:....run for the hills !!! :laugh1

Agreed on the above... ;) May I add that lipchains are not good horsemanship IMO...if you need them for control something went wrong in your groundwork. :shock: :BH
I am very grateful that these bulky halter horses are less popular in Germany than reiners. Just looking at the upright pasterns and I want to offer that horse a crutch. :hammer

Every man made dicipline has its flaws, its all a matter of what you willing to call "normal" . I try to not be to judgemental of another persons chosen event.

Well, in reality the lipchain is as much for looks as for anything else. I know people who use them simply because they are told they would get laughed out of the ring if they went in without one. Also, don't forget these horses are kept in a stall 23/7 and fed INCREDIBLE amounts of food... I'm sure the majority are pretty hot.

That is terrible.

I do not mind being judgemental :rofl
They are HORRIBLE, awful, not really horses at all, they remind me of Simmental cattle.
Why would you breed horses you can't ride (she says with a filed full of Miniatures......) OK I'll rephrase that slightly, why would you breed horses that are ugly, no use, the size of a house and you can't ride them??
The only reason you cannot ride most of mine is because they are too small, their conformation is pretty much spot on.

When you start picking apart another venue in a species you like ,you are in a sense playing into the hands of Peta and ARA, they love to see nothing more then to have no one own a single animal , no one RIDE an animal , its cruel you know...so you all are walking a very fine line looking down your noses at something that is no more tradition then a saddle or a bridle. Chains are used in halter as communication and looks. No different then a dog shown with a choker/martingale. Its a slippery slope to start being super judgemental , you will be the one under a microscope next.

I've used a lip chain before, I don't see a problem with it in the right circumstances. I used mine when we were teaching mist to stand for the ferrier (glad that's over with, it was hell). We also tied her leg up and all sorts of tricks. I wouldn't use one in a show, but I just don't need to. I mean, I have a chain, obviously, but not on the lip. Don't they do that with TBs all the time, too? I know they do at my race track anyway. And the QH racers.

I don't have a problem with the chains, though I still think it shows someone that cannot handle a horse properly and/or a horse that is not properly trained.
Halter Stock horses today are so misshapen in muscles and conformation, looking through APHA and AQHA magazines I rarely find any that actually have straight legs that aren't post legged. I don't know why anyone would want such a grossly misshapen horse, and its beyond me how any of them win at all in anything. I just don't see how that is good for halter, I would think halter horses would be top athletes, able to excel in almost anything, even if they aren't shown in other events.

you could say about the same for arabs, too though. I've seen some halter arabs with legs so skinny i'd be afraid i'd break them! I know arabs that retired as 2 year olds, and no one ever plans to ride them, they just sit and wait till old enough to breed.

I do like seeing peoples views on different breeds and disciplines. I don't care much for arabs but I think their halter horses look much better than stock breeds. I still think a halter horse of whatever breed should be an athlete capable of doing whatever.

See, I am all for domestic bred arabs. It's the straight ones that I don't think would be right for me. Domestic ones are very versitale though. I'm just spoiled on Nike though :D

For some years, there was actually a performance requirement for national Arabian halter horses. I don't remember the specifics, but they had to have shown under saddle to quality for a national halter class. I think they had to place too.

[quote="Maigray"]For some years, there was actually a performance requirement for national Arabian halter horses. I don't remember the specifics, but they had to have shown under saddle to quality for a national halter class. I think they had to place too.[/quote]
=p~ :X yes please
why on earth did they change it!

[b]I think people have taken halter to a whole nother level.
Isn't a halter horse "supposed" to be the epitome of each breed?? Correct conformation? The IDEAL horse for each breed??
They've increased the size/bulk to a level that makes the horse "useless" for any thing other than halter, because they're TOO heavy to do anything else.
I think its partly the judges fault for placing "certain" horses.
A QH or any other breed should be able to halter & then saddle em up & go out & do a job.
The ideal QH doesn't have upright pasterns, being post legged or have hips hangin to their hocks or so much muscle they waddle!!
I think "halter people" need a reality check...seriously!!
There are VERY few horse that halter & ride.
[/b]

[quote="PamelaTX"][b]I think people have taken halter to a whole nother level.
Isn't a halter horse "supposed" to be the epitome of each breed?? Correct conformation? The IDEAL horse for each breed??
They've increased the size/bulk to a level that makes the horse "useless" for any thing other than halter, because they're TOO heavy to do anything else.
[/b][/quote]
That is what I meant in a nutshell when I commented above... ;) It is sad to see this since the QH has always been a working horse. :(

[quote]why on earth did they change it![/quote]

I don't know. Probably a lot of reasons. But it was enforced, even if the horse only placed 2 out of 3 in some tiny regional 25 miler ride. It meant every senior mare and stallion in the halter championship class at the US Nationals was broke and rideable. The halter horses have their problems, but I think it had an effect. You'd be surprised who can actually be ridden because of that rule.

It's the same in dogs though, I have dogs that can actually work, ie Schutzhund/Agility/whatever.
I had one bitch that did well in "Working Bitch" classes (mainly because she showed like a Dog!) and to enter that you had to have entered a working class at the [i]same show[/i] (so they always had at least an obedience class at these shows) since we aced (for some unknown reason) the obedience classes you would have thought we stood a good chance in the working classes??
I was beaten once by a Bitch that had [i]entered[/i]the obedience...my Bitch had [i]won[/i] that class, the Bitch that beat her had entered and not shown up.....make a rule and people will find a way round it.
And I am very sorry but lip chains are evil, there is no place for them in the show ring, I have always handled stallions and I have not even used a chin chain, let alone through the mouth or over the lip...I am not at all sure you would be allowed to use one over here, what you do at home to control your horse, within limits, is acceptable, I use a twitch for some things but I would not be allowed to take a horse in the ring with a twitch on it's nose!!!
You do have to be very, very careful of being so accepting of tradition, this is how come you (Americans, that is) ended up with check reins so tight the horse cannot see where it is going and has impaired airways, soring and blocks on poor thin little hardly two year old TWHs and QHs that are more suited to the meat market than they are to riding.
It is not us pointing this out that enrages Peta, it is people actually [i]doing it[/i] that enrages the fringe of the Peta crowd and makes us, as horse breeders, indefensible.

Europe has it's own nasty little secrets, I am the first to admit, and I could go on all day about it, but breeding animals like this, that are unsound, ugly, and make everyone except a small group of enthusiasts feel physically ill, have no place in the horse world.
It would be as if, within Miniatures, someone was breeding and showing Dwarfs.

wow she is beautiful.

and I agree, those QH 'halter' horses should never have been bred like that! not good for them to be looking like steriod injected over weight horses :(

Halter horses have their place in themarket and dont take away from workinghorses , I venture to say that the produce numbers of working and ridable horses FAR out number the halter horses , people that often take up with halter are folks who have no riding ability or cant ride but still have a competitive nature and enjoy the animals, who is anyone to say what is "right or wrong", it will never take away from those animals that are working under saddle .... if you want to really look down at something look down at the average back yard breeder that breeds medocre aniamls that bring the market down with animals and feel that they are "useable" ..just because they can be riden dosent mean they should be bred anymore then a halter horse. The halter horses have a place in the market .

[quote="Heather"] The halter horses have a place in the market .[/quote]
That is absolutely okay, but why do they have to be unsound? That is just cruel to the animals. :sad

If a horse is shown in halter it should also be sound to be ridden, otherwise there is absolutely no point in showing it in halter.
The only place a halter class has is to show the animals in hand as opposed to under saddle, not to produce an animal that is incapable of being shown under saddle.
Most of our halter classes are for young stock, and I think I prefer it that way, the assumption being that once they are over four years old they will be produced under saddle....

Its very easy to breed to extremes- the longest legs, the shortest nose, the fattest behind whatever. It takes skill to breed a line of animals with middling type (whatever the species) that still stand out at a show, that have that special something. Breeding to extremes shows very little skill at all, beyond being able to choose the most extreme type in a litter or crop of offspring to breed on. Truly great show animals should have nothing exteme about tham at all but still make you go WOW! I breed fancy rats and its very very hard to get good type because there is nothing extreme, its all about balancing features.
Likewise judging extremes is the easy way out, judges should be choosing an animal to win that has overall WOW not the biggest/thinnest/longest/shortest whatever.