Showing question

How old are you? If you're still a junior there might be a group or club in your area that could help you get started.

I just turned 18 and I wanted to show in the near future, possibly some in college or out of college. I just want to do more with our horses than just looking at them and training them.

Showing minis is lots of fun but it's very competitive in most breeds so you'll need to get in lots of practice getting them to stand correctly for whatever breed you do decide on...give it a go though as you'll meet new friends and have lots of fun. If you are showing minis you will need to get them fully clipped out including the muzzle and eyebrows in the USA (we don't do it over here) so get them used to clippers now.

Have fun !! :flower

CMhorses,

There may be some playdays or small community horse shows in your area and those would probably be a good place to start. You can contact your county 4-h office they will probably have some information. Just because your 18 doesn't mean you can't complete the ones near me usually have adult classes.

Daylene

Find something that says "fun show" or "schooling show", call local instructors they'll know when they are. Those are great , all you need is a clean horse and tack, and tidy schooling clothes(buttton up shirt and jeans for western, hat or helmet), no bling at schooling shows, you want your emphasis on skill. Unless you are just entering one or two classes pay the day fee and enter everything you feel safe in, I allways am in much better shape later in the day than at the beginning as I calm down, the more classes I'm in the better I do. Why I allways enter halter even if I'm leading a wierd looking horse, it takes some of the edge off for the riding classes.
While you are there be sure to walk the barn, you'll learn a lot just by looking at the other horses and talking to owners. Talk to people on the sides of the warm up ring, dont be shy (talk to the calm looking people). Ask when you sign in what you'll have to do for each class or find the patterns, even if you're in the middle of a class if you blank out on what you are suposed to do just pause and think for a second and breath (unless its a spead game, for those you dont think, just scramble lol) if you're lucky and have a nice judge they may remind you.
Those shows are for learning and usually lots of people to help you. If you can bring a showing friend all the better but dont try to be perfect like for a big show, you'll just stress out. Do clip well and have a shiny and calm horse if you enter halter classes and try and keep your distance from other horses, lots of chain reaction eruptions caused by just getting too close. For riding classes make sure you can back your horse up in a straight line for about 5 steps without him having to look behind first. And keep you're mouth closed ( I have a bad habit of gaping instead of smiling >.<)
Rail classes are actually trickier than they look (to me) because you are in there with so many other horses. Especially at an all breed show the pleasure classes can have horses of all sizes and speeds and you have to constantly maneuver unless you are the one with the peanut pusher, those glue themselves to the rail and dont seem to budge... :| My first show ever I had the horrible luck to have the same trotting spead as the mean little pony with the red ribbon in his tail (code for kicker), I could not get away from him. :shock:

OK, first... Get a Welsh pony... :laugh1
I would look around for either open shows or small breed shows. I must say, out here the Welsh pony people are amazing! So friendly and willing to help out when they can. Last show, one of the lead liners forgot his curb strap and one of the other moms ran back to her stall and got him one to use.
I think the more popular breed shows like Arabs or Minis, people would tend to be a bit more cut throat. I've heard Arab people are worse than beauty pagent kids' mothers. :shock: Sabotage is like a game to them.

My favorite open show in alabama was put on by the Arab club :S the stock horse people were the crazy ones :lol: The Paint breed shows are pretty good but I keep more to myself if I go to one cause I'll explode at some of the horsekeeping practices. :hammer

I would definately be open to buying a different breed of horse, since I had always wished my mom would have (I like variety). The only variety (other than minis and paints which are practically QH's) we have is an unregistered Rocky Mountain mare that was a rescue. (I want a draft horse!)
Also I wouldn't mind trying to show in harness for minis.
For open shows, does the horse have to be registered? The only ones I have currently that I would show in anything are unregistered, but I can get my mini registered as a national show pony (she went over the height limit for AMHR :hammer )

Open shows you can show unregistered.

Definitely stick to open. Even at breed shows where the people are "nice", the horses often pin according to who their trainer is and their "type" rather than their ability or performance. I think any time everyone gets together with a single breed of horse, weirdness starts to happen.

[quote]I think any time everyone gets together with a single [insert anything here], weirdness starts to happen.[/quote]

OMG I just realized that my feelings about breed shows and my feelings about organized religion are exactly the same. :shock:

:rofl

Ah, maybe that came out harsher than I meant it to. I guess if you already have a deep love for a breed I can see showing on the breed circuit... but as a beginner starting out in the show world I bet CMHorses wouldn't want to get involved in those politics. ;)

Maybe I'm just a show virgin. I've had wonderful experiences with the Welsh breed shows. I thought too of the "popular" trainers winning everything and thought I didn't have a chance with Frodo, but Jane is proving otherwise. She was out of training and breeding for a long time and was not the popular pick. Wins were going to Goldhills, Farmore, and Gaslight on everything. Until Frodo came in. Now he's winning over some and has beat the a lot of the national champs out there.
In my younger days and having friends who were in jumping shows, the snobbery was tremendous. Not the right color jacket, pants, or not being rail thin would get you rude remarks. I guess it was nice of them to say it to your face instead of behind your back....
I think the reason you see certain trainers winning a lot in the smaller breed shows is because there aren't that many out there. Just my .02
My advice... Look around and talk to people at some shows in your area. No one will fit in 100% of the time, but you can get a good idea of where you would like it most.

Thanks for the advice!

[quote="Andrea"]Maybe I'm just a show virgin. I've had wonderful experiences with the Welsh breed shows. I thought too of the "popular" trainers winning everything and thought I didn't have a chance with Frodo, but Jane is proving otherwise. She was out of training and breeding for a long time and was not the popular pick. Wins were going to Goldhills, Farmore, and Gaslight on everything. Until Frodo came in. Now he's winning over some and has beat the a lot of the national champs out there.
In my younger days and having friends who were in jumping shows, the snobbery was tremendous. Not the right color jacket, pants, or not being rail thin would get you rude remarks. I guess it was nice of them to say it to your face instead of behind your back....
I think the reason you see certain trainers winning a lot in the smaller breed shows is because there aren't that many out there. Just my .02
My advice... Look around and talk to people at some shows in your area. No one will fit in 100% of the time, but you can get a good idea of where you would like it most.[/quote]

To clarify, I mean to offense to you and Frodo by my comments because he is a lovely stallion and I'm sure he could sire performance ponies as well as Welsh show ponies. Also, I have not heard that your trainer matters as much on the Welsh circuit as with some other breeds. However, I have opted to steer clear of the Welsh shows for two reasons.

When I first joined WPCSA I was told there was a wonderful Yahoo! group I should join to get to know some of the other breeders and start learning my way around the breed. As is my custom on new forums or online groups, I lurked for a while to kind of get a feel for the posting and then I introduced myself. I thought the Welsh breeders would be thrilled that I was getting Welshes and Welsh crossbreds out there and seen by the general public. After all, their own breed website boasts how versatile these ponies are. Instead, I was urged to show my ponies on the Welsh circuit. When I politely declined because open hunters is what I know, I was told that my Welshes were going to waste and what a shame it was that they were "lost to the Welsh world forever". (That's a direct quotation, by the way, and it makes me laugh so much that I pull it out and use it tongue-in-cheek whenever I see a Welsh cleaning up in pony hunters.) I know countless breeders do what I do, cross with Arabs and TBs and WBs and show open, and apparently just do it quietly and ignore the uproar from the Welsh breeders. I'm in possession of the USEF top pony hunter sires list from last year and out of the top 29 stallions (the number that would fit on the two pages I printed) only TWO are not Welsh or half-Welsh. (The other two are a Connemara and a Thoroughbred.) A couple people posted to agree with me that Welshes and Welsh crosses should be out kicking other pony butt on the hunter circuit (seriously, nothing else can come close) and a few people contacted me privately to tell me that the ones causing a problem for me were a particularly vocal minority but the damage was done. The whole business left such a bad taste in my mouth that I did not renew my membership and have never shown on the Welsh circuit although practically half my barn is eligible.

The other thing that happened around the same time was that I befriended a woman who owns a particularly phenomenal stallion. She shows him in open dressage and he wins in the best of company. I've watched him compete on showgrounds where he is literally dwarfed by his Warmblood competition and he walks away with the top spots almost every time. He's doing Prix St George now, I believe. There is even talk about an Olympic mare being booked to him (for embryo transfer, of course). This stallion does not win at Welsh shows, however, because the winning stallions in the C and D sections are the ones who "ooze Welsh type" (another direct quotation) which appears to mean that they're upside down, have a great big butt and hind legs trailing behind them. They couldn't use themselves correctly if their lives depended on it. Now, isn't halter supposed to showcase the animals with the conformation and type best suited to what that breed is known for? Well, obviously not, because "halter" is what has brought us animals such as http://www.magnumpsyche.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.bertonqh.com/index_bqh.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Any time "type" is valued over usability, alarms go off in my head. Luckily, what I've seen of Section A and B is much better, probably because more of these stallions really are siring open circuit champions and there is more of a uniform standard for them between the open and breed worlds.

And now...

*clears throat and steps onto soapbox*
(you thought I was already up there, didn't you? ;) )

I am so **** sick of hearing about the snobbery of the hunter/jumper world -- that it's just a glorified fashion show.

There is fashion in every discipline. Do you honestly want to tell me that I could wear any old thing if I wanted to do this

[img]http://jmquarters.com/breeders.JPG[/img]

or this

[img]http://www.oakhillfarmsltd.com/images/M…]

at a high level?

In any sport, from baseball to competitive ballroom dancing, there are acceptable outfits and uniforms and wearing them shows that you respect and understand your sport (and in a horse show, that you respect the stewards and judges).

And the body type? Again, in any sport there is a body type that will give a participant a leg up. A ballerina is willowy -- a sumo wrestler is massive. A certain body type may allow someone to excel in sprinting but be lousy at throwing a javelin. Of course there are always exceptions but if you pick a sport that favors a body type that you don't have, you can expect to have to work a little harder. The body type favored in hunters and equitation is not just a fad -- the short torso, long legs and lithe body is the type that will make learning to ride a little bit easier. I see it again and again in my lessons, that the girls who are not blessed with this body type just have to work that much harder. When they are willing to put in the work, however, some of these girls can do just as well as the ones who had it a little easier. My own trainer does NOT fit the norm for body type and she won and won as a kid.

It isn't fair to dismiss the hard work of the kids who show hunters as a fashion or beauty contest. Drop your stirrups and jump a course with us before you judge the entire sport.

Oh, and Andrea... that wasn't all pointed at you. It started with your quote but turned into a random rant... an open letter, really, to address some of the biases I hear ALL the time.

No worries, I was just commenting on my experiences as you are yours.
I have no clue what the yahoo group meant when they said that. I would think they would be proud that Welsh were winning in your area in open shows. The one thing I know is that they are always trying to get ponies to complete their gold ratings. If they don't get the numbers they don't get the rating. They try to make the shows and club fun and enjoyable for new comers as they will hope they will continue to come back.
My comments on the snobbery and backstabbing weren't directed at the judges, but the competition and catiness within the women who compete. They aren't there to be nice to other competitors, that's for sure ;)
As for halter, like it or not, it's about the type. But at the same time, the ponies winning in halter go on to compete in the other ridden classes as well. I've not seen any ponies other than the young that do halter only. Most go into halter just for fun and then go into the ridden classes.
That said, I have no doubt that Frodo would get his hiney kicked by a half or by a less typey Welsh. It's the nature of the breed. The As were meant to be cart ponies, not really hunter or english pleasure competitors. Cobs are meant to be round buldgy and well... Cobby. That would mean they can't have the movement a WB does. It's just life. So if you want a pony that is more competitive in open shows then you get a pony that is less typey, and vice versa. I think that's what it comes down to. Choose the type shows where your pony will do best.

Oh, and as far as how the competitors dress...
You are supposed to dress to show respect for the judge and usability in your chosen dicipline. I wasn't saying there's not fashion in any dicipline. Just the jealousy and catiness that seems to run rampant in hunter clubs. My friend was 5'6" and 120 lbs. Not fat at all. But because some of the other girls knew she was self conscience it became a game to see how many ways they could elude to her being fat without actually saying "you're fat". It seems that if they smell weakness, it was a feeding frenzy. I've seen sabotage at the level of beauty pagents. They didn't seem to worry about someone being hurt from stuff they pulled. Just as long as they could win I guess.
How does someone feel better about a win if they had to put a tack on a girth of a competitor? Of course this was 20 years ago, I have no idea what the world is like now.
I tend to like small groups anyway which is why I chose breed shows.

Wow, yeah, I've spent countless days and weeks at big hunter shows and NEVER seen that kind of cattiness. Cliques, yes. Sabotage? No.

And the cobs are supposed to be using animals. When their hind ends trail behind them they aren't good for anything but to stand there (and wow people who don't know better with their action in front). A cob with proper conformation CAN compete with a warmblood. That was my point! ;)

What do you think of Prince Albert? That is they kind of cob I love. He's so versatile and sweet and typey. She's got him in everything from hunter to dressage. Another really super nice family!
WBs are lighter than cobs. They would have two totally differnt movement types.
Also I love Goldhills Hot Mocha. Really lovely girl and a really nice mover! Gerald the owner of Goldhills (with Jackie) is the one who gave me one of his Supreme sashes because I was given a gelding sash by mistake and the people who got Frodo's had left already. So they made it a point to come over and give me theirs. Like I said, with the exception of 1 person, I've had nothing but good experiences with the Welsh people.
Seeing as how Welsh halter ponies have to trot out around the ring for the judge, I know they judge movement.

Cob were using animals. They were used as a farm and harness horse. So would you really want huge action in back while you're plowing? :laugh1
Here's what I found: "The Welsh Cob was originally used as a farm and harness horse, but it's spectaular action has made it popular in the show ring, in harness and nowadays in dressage competition."

It seems by expecting huge action in back, you are trying to change the type ;)

No, I'm not expecting huge action in back and actually that is not desirable in dressage anyway. (Action is not the same thing as a horse using its hind end properly -- a horse may have a ton of hock action with no "schwung") I'm expecting a hind end underneath the body which I thought was proper conformation. And just because a Cob has a heavier body than a warmblood does not mean it can't have proper movement or be athletic. Actually warmbloods used to be quite heavy as well but have been gradually getting lighter with the popularity of adding TB and Arab blood.

As far as changing type goes... type changes to suit current needs. Not many people need a plow horse any more. ;)

I guess I can't comment on Prince Albert because I have not seen him go. I know they use him in a lot of things and I love seeing the cobs get out there and compete. I also remember that his owners seemed quite nice (from when I was on the Yahoo! group).

I honestly can't remember the names or prefixes of the breeders who were so horrified that I wasn't showing on the Welsh breed circuit.

I also think that if Frodo had been gelded and trained for hunters he would have done quite well. The testosterone causes them to bulk out and strut in a way that is not fashionable for a hunter pony, but both Cory and Frodo have siblings doing quite well on the A circuit. The small pony hunter division is pretty much made up of Section A with a few small B's. One of the first Welshes I ever rode, Lochinvar Pendragon, was a Section A champion hunter pony.

sucky vid, but you can see how lovely he moves. Is this proper movement as far as his hind end goes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n5QqXH3…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I said not moving like a WB, it was to compare their different movements. Since cobs are heavier bones and muscles are tied in differently, they're not going to have the freer movement of a WB or TB. They can do it, but I don't think you can expect them to be as fluid as the lighter breed types. I dunno. I'm really the last person that should be commenting on movement type per dicipline cause I have a hard enough time telling a trot from a canter! :laugh1

I wish wish wish I had video of Winterlake Portia. She is full Section D and hands down the best (dressage) mover I've ever seen. I was absolutely floored.

I watched Prince Albert and you're right, the quality of the video is low. I would like to see him coming under himself a little bit more and I also like to see a little more even movement (the front end was very flashy and the hind end less so -- I would have liked to see either less knee or more hock) but that's just me. I don't know if dressage judges rate movement that way. He was moving better by the end of the test though so he may have been nervous at the beginning. His movement is not what I'm talking about when I mentioned cobs with trailing hind ends. He's better than that.

I guess I haven't shown enough within the Arabian Breed shows to get any sniff of sabotage going on? I'm so curious about this. Is this within show barns between riders or between trainers or??? My barn is very supportive both the riders to each other and show support for other barns as well. After all you have to do business with your peers...

Woot woot to Sara's rant on hunters.

I won't even start about organized religion, because I do think some folks require guidance when common sense is missing, but that is TOO funny.

My advice is to take a few lessons at a few different types of barns if you can't decide on a discipline or breed.

What exactly do you do now? What types of horses do you have now?

Go watch as many horse shows as you can and make notes of the classes that look like something you want to do, then try a lesson in it.

I used to watch Morgan and Saddlbred shows thinking I'd like that. But I tried it and Hunt is my only comfort zone. I'm working on western pleasure now....whew. If only I didn't have to work and pay bills....I'd also like to try dressage.

Warning on WP...they are some of the WORST when it comes to being "cliquey"...a good "taste" would be going to some of the pleasure horse forums...I want to say on Delphi. IF you do not have the right clothes, right tack, right trainer and right bloodlines, they do not like newcomers...and they are vicious if they think someone "overstepped" the mark...I know of people having complained to breed registries because one of the prized BNTs was said to have had one more drug suspension from a registry than they actually had...AFAIC, if a BNT has one suspension for drugging, well, why are they still being used as a trainer?????

Diane

My experience at a C rated Hunter show did not leave me willing to come back (VERY snobby, sorry CC it is the truth with that certain crowd!), however my tries at a B schooling show were very pleasant. With saying that, there are snobby everythings, everywhere.
My theory is: I think you see it more at the Hunter shows (atleast in my area, it could be completely different in your neck of the woods) though because there are generally a lot more people, waiting around for the same classes, on very hot and steamy days. And there are also a few that ruin it for all. I don't know, just a thought! :)

And CM-- start with some lessons (even if you know how to ride, etc.) with a good barn in your area that could take you to some shows, and that way you could get a feel for showing and figure your way around it with someone (coach/instructor) by your side who is willing to help. You could also start at the county fair as they are less serious than state fairs, plus they are fun!

[quote="Jenks"]Woot woot to Sara's rant on hunters. [/quote]

Thank you, thank you...

*takes a bow on behalf of hunter riders and trainers everywhere*

TCF, I've only ever shown A circuit hunters or non-rated hunters (against mostly the same people, usually this means they are on babies getting mileage). I'm not sure what the other ratings are or mean. I pondered it yesterday though and I've decided that if sitting on a quality horse in quality tack and caring about how myself, my horses and my students are turned out makes me a snob then I'll embrace that label.