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remedial lesson needed...

Heather April 15, 2010 February 22, 2011

Forums

"Lavender dilutes both eumelanin and pheomelanin" the E and P, translate in horse color terms for me so I might get it??

Heather Thu, 04/15/2010 - 19:39

OK awesome, I thought it might be black chestnut.... , i need to retain this stuff better... OMG chicken colors are sooooo complex compared to horses and dogs , its insane... im sooooooo lost, you should see the color calculator for chickens ... :rofl

Jenks Thu, 04/15/2010 - 19:41

[quote="Heather"]"Lavender dilutes both eumelanin and pheomelanin"

the E and P, translate in horse color terms for me so I might get it??[/quote]

GOod lord. There are 2 reds and 4 blacks (that I know of so far). Which breed (so I can look up for you which one as the dratted phenotypes NEVER match genotype across breeds)? I was thinking you got some D'Uccles, but I know you have all the porcelain OEGBs....so I don't know.

Heather Thu, 04/15/2010 - 19:46

No the porcelains are one step short of porcelain, they are actually "isabelle" and once they are crossed on millie fluer then they will be porcelain, the are from a show judges stock i finally got to talk to about them , they were an early part of the "project" aparently but only one step away, even isabelle is pretty! I was confused however as there are 2 lavender(self blue) hens in the group and they are lighter them some other lavenders I have seen so on the classroom i posed the question as to weather lavender can look differnt on buff vs black and I got the E and P words tossed at me and thought "ut oh" I havent been paying attention enough LOL ...... im going insane.. :rofl

Jenks Thu, 04/15/2010 - 19:54

OK - when I look up just Lavender in general, it shows homozygous Dominant black (E/E), homozygous Dominant Silver (S/S) and homozygous recessive lavender (lav/lav). It says (in case you get gold instead of silver) that lavender dilutes both black and gold equally, unlike blue. No red or gold is allowed in a black bird that's going to be made lavender, because lavendar will turn it into an orange of buff color.

Unlike with horses, if you used a heterozygous Silver, it would have the tinge of reddish. As for the base color, Dominant black (I believe) is just like the dominant black you know and love.

Jenks Thu, 04/15/2010 - 19:59

Isabel (spelled like that but this book was written out of the US)

Is recessive eb/eb (brown - one of the Extension genes) s+/s+ (gold), Co/Co, Db/Db, Pg/Pg, Di/Di (Cb/Cb ig/ig), lav/lav

Heather Thu, 04/15/2010 - 20:17

OMG I knew it was insane like that, but im still confused.....the lavender, why it looks the way it looks on 2 of my girls, they dont look like the buff, they are clearly purple, vs isabell

Jenks Thu, 04/15/2010 - 20:26

I will ask the writer of my book - he signed it - and has answered some of my questions graciously in the recent past. Maybe we could get Jen to ask her UC Davis chicken peeps too.

Jenks Thu, 04/15/2010 - 20:30

[quote="Heather"]btw this is a rooster I have coming for the lavender girls, he is clearly I think black under is lav/lav
but the girls are much lighter, not convinced they are black under lav, but if they wernt they would be isabelle... arghh
[img]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/…]

I would be stupid to guess, but....I'd bet he is EE and SS. I would guess the others with the gold may have some other black like ER (birchen), e+ (wildtype), or EWh (wheaten) OR they have Gold s+ in either heterozygous form or something - BUT I'm learning! Not a pro. I can send it to at least one though and see if I get a response.

Heather Thu, 04/15/2010 - 20:30

the classroom has been helpful my problem is Im not asking the right questions for myself( I dont knwo what ones to ask to make it more clear formyself) , I feel like Im being a PITA because I keep going in circles with this...

Jenks Thu, 04/15/2010 - 20:33

[quote="Heather"]the classroom has been helpful my problem is Im not asking the right questions for myself( I dont knwo what ones to ask to make it more clear formyself) , I feel like Im being a PITA because I keep going in circles with this...[/quote]

UH - You know what? I am beginning to feel like they either:
a- don't really know
b- don't really WANT you to know
c- keeping it a secret as if they can be the only one who figures it out

HONESTLY.
I get the same crap. NO DIRECT ANSWER grasshoppa

Heather Thu, 04/15/2010 - 20:37

BTW .. here was the whole post, Im kinda getting it a bit more jsut from this thread now that I read back over it again

"Lavender dilutes both eumelanin and pheomelanin. Eumelanin is diluted to grey, and pheomelanin to yellowish (straw). I'm not an expert on whether there are differences in expression of pheomelanin diluted by lavender (maybe somebody else will add something here). I can't see anything other then grey on the two hens, so I assume they are just black. (It does not exclude the possibility that they can produce babies with Columbian restriction.)

If you mean Columbian like, for example, Light Sussex, then it would look just white with grey tail and grey neck hackles. The two birds on the right may be Buff Columbians (under the lavender). Buff diluted by lavender should look straw coloured all over the body (but I haven't heard about such a bird yet). Buff is a very complex colour (and not totally understood), and it is easy to lose some genes in crossings. There is a theoretical possibility to get black offsprig from birds with Columbian restriction in case when Db is responsible for the restriction and the bird is on ER-locus. When you lose Db in crossing, you can get a black bird."

Jenks Fri, 04/16/2010 - 07:18

I think that yes you are right. They are saying that 2 have black bases and the other 2 have red in them and that lavender dilutes both equally.

Heather Fri, 04/16/2010 - 07:58

isnt there more then one black however? I think the girls are a different black then the rooster is under his lavender, dont you?

Jenks Fri, 04/16/2010 - 09:10

[quote="Heather"]isnt there more then one black however? I think the girls are a different black then the rooster is under his lavender, dont you?[/quote]

Yes there is more than one black, but the lavenders should be E, the isabels should be eb

Your roo that's in with the 3? Or the new roo?

Heather Fri, 04/16/2010 - 14:55

[quote="Jenks"][quote="Heather"]isnt there more then one black however? I think the girls are a different black then the rooster is under his lavender, dont you?[/quote]

Yes there is more than one black, but the lavenders should be E, the isabels should be eb

Your roo that's in with the 3? Or the new roo?[/quote]

The new roo is coming next week he will be for the 2 lavender girls.

Jenks Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:22

[quote="Heather"][quote="Jenks"][quote="Heather"]isnt there more then one black however? I think the girls are a different black then the rooster is under his lavender, dont you?[/quote]

Yes there is more than one black, but the lavenders should be E, the isabels should be eb

Your roo that's in with the 3? Or the new roo?[/quote]

The new roo is coming next week he will be for the 2 lavender girls.[/quote]

ya, I think they look right. I'd bet it's just that thing with the way roos carry colors on the Z locus that girls can't.