Due to decreasing use over the years, I have decided to disable the forum functionality of the site.

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Not sure where to post this....

Krickette May 07, 2009 February 22, 2011

Forums

I was going to do genetics, but it's not color....then maybe vet, but...I dunno, it's going here, you can move it if you want, lol. [quote][img]http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6603602,00.jpg[/img] You would be forgiven for having a wager each way when pacer What Am I races in Ballarat tonight. The aptly named pacer is unique in Australasia, albeit with a bit of an identity crisis and personality problems to boot. His sometimes odd behaviour bewildered his owner and perplexed equine experts - until they realised What Am I is one of only two hermaphrodite horses racing in the world. Born with more male chromosomes than female, but with the sex organs of a mare, it wasn't until it was time for him to be gelded that racing associates noticed something missing. Further veterinary investigation revealed that the horse, which goes by the stable name Baxter, was a male with a mare's genitalia. Registering the promising pacer with Harness Racing Victoria proved problematic. The only other hermaphrodite horse racing is a Canadian mare called Arizona Helen who was found to also be intersex when "she" twice tested over the limits for testosterone. What Am I's owner Basil King said he noticed differences in his pacer when he was taken to be broken in. "He's a nice horse and he can run," King said. "He's all right until you put food near him and then he gets a bit nasty." But King disputed that his horse is a hermaphrodite, which has both male and female reproduction organs. "He has neither male nor female reproductive organs and in fact he is so rare they have had to come up with a new term - vaggintersex - to classify the fact he has neither sexes' reproductive organs." The glossy black horse has had one start for fourth after trialling well. He attracted interest from punters to start as third favourite when he returned from a spell in the Foster Bros Tyrepower 3YO Pace at Ballarat tonight, but finished seventh.[/quote] http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25410120-5013016,00.ht…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CMhorses Thu, 05/07/2009 - 10:59

My question is how could they think it was a stallion if it had mare parts...I mean...did they not check at all or notice how it used the bathroom?? Maby we have some genitalia confused people.

NZ Appaloosas Thu, 05/07/2009 - 20:08

Pacers can trot. He's probably bred to be a pacer, and would be raced with pacing hobbles. If the two standies are still with us when you get here, MP, you'll see what I mean--they're both "pacers", but they have trots warmblood breeders would kill to get on their horses...

Diane

Krickette Thu, 05/07/2009 - 21:22

OMG, I rode a pacer once and I didn't know it. They just told me "we have trouble getting her past the walk", and I was riding and feeling confident, so I trotted her....it threw me for a loop! I had never felt anything like that.

rabbitsfizz Fri, 05/08/2009 - 05:31

I had an intersex, looked like a filly till the yearling came in season then a little penis popped out of the rear door!!
There was nothing we could do, and she could not be gelded as her testicles were right in side.
She could not be bred either as her womb was virtually non existent.
I was not her legal owner (foal back) and her owner opted for surgery but she died on the table.
This animal HAS to have genitals or it would not be able to pee, basically, so that is a load of crock...people just have to make up terms don't they??
It is rare in horses and is similar to Freemartins in cattle, which are not rare, and is thought to be the result of unformed twinning.
Freemartins are the result of twinning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemartin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

vneerland Fri, 05/08/2009 - 09:05

Interesting. 8-)

[i]"In rural areas folklore often claimed this condition was not just peculiar to cattle, but extended also to human twins; this belief perpetuated for generations," [/i]

IF you follow that analogy, human hermaphrodites could be as rare as they are because twins are rare to begin with? :?
Come to think about it. I have never heard of harmaphrodite dogs though. (or horses before the above one) So it appears it would not affect all species.

Monsterpony Fri, 05/08/2009 - 19:22

Being a hermaphrodite has nothing to do with twinning. Hermaphrodites either have chromosome issues (XXY, Xy, XO) or it is something that occurs in the very early stages of embryologic development. There is some odd genetic condition in goats that a large percentage of those that are born polled (without horns) are hermaphrodites. There is a completely different condition that occurs in cattle where there is a male and female twin present. The female has exposure to certain male hormones and is born a freemartin, which is a female that acts like a male and is not a hermaphrodite.

NZ Appaloosas Fri, 05/08/2009 - 21:33

Ayup--on another forum, we've had some interesting discussions on freemartins, with some very knowledgeable cattle breeders helping us non-cow people. Basically, the male fetus's testosterone mucks up the female's hormone levels, and leaves her sterile. The term "freemartin" came about because the breeder basically got a freebie for the dinner plates, since there was no since in keeping the heifer from male/female twinning, as she was sterile.

Diane

rabbitsfizz Sat, 05/09/2009 - 03:27

Human twins aren't that rare (she says having twin Great nephew and niece)
Identical twins happen.
Non identical twins are hereditary.
MP I realise that horse twinning is not the same as cattle, but I did think it was connected with twinning.
Admittedly this happened thirty years ago, but the filly went into the RVC for the op and that is the info they gave us at the time.
There are families in Jamaica, BTW that are affected by some sort of hermaphroditism, where the girls turn (for want of a better word) into boys at puberty.
I do not know if they are capable of producing children.
I watched a series of programmes on this, and the affects of surgically altering incomplete boys into girls, and a lovely Scottish couple who had intersex "girls" brought up open minded and, if you will excuse the pun, open ended!!
The girls are now entering what for them will be a very difficult puberty, but they have their parents to support them and you do feel they will be OK.
The lad in the states, however, killed himself after all manner of problems.
Oh, BOY was that "Off Topic"!!!

Krickette Sun, 05/10/2009 - 02:40

it's supposedly "my turn" for twins, lol. every 3rd generation down my mom's side is a twin, lol, so everyone says it's my turn to have twins. when i was little i wanted twins.....now i know a lot of twins, and....thats a lot of work, lol!

vneerland Sun, 05/10/2009 - 10:04

My grandmother on my mothers side had two sets of identical twins. :shock: If not hereditary, I would love to know what made that happen.
None of her 8 children, or ??? (did not count) grandchildren have twins. The generation after that is a bit young to reproduce, but I can't say anyone is expecting it to pop back up now. :lol: