LD Pistal

He was cloned because he has fertility problems and they wanted a "just in case the AHA ever allows it" option. They petitioned the AHA to allow his clone to breed. I have no idea when that will be reviewed, but I seriously doubt they will pass it. That is IF the lab that cloned him doesn't take the clone back (apparently it's not fully paid for, and apparently neither is Pistal). It's all a huge scandal. :roll:

Holy moly. I did get that much. Reading Jeff Sloan's posts.... I have to wonder, despite wanting to believe him, why would you clone a horse and sell the original? Why not keep the original? He had 7 babies in 07......that's not bad (IMO). Is that terrible?

It depends on how many he bred. 7 out of 50 would be horrible. But 7 out of 10 is obviously fine. 7 out of 20 would be considered quite low.

Wait, I thought part of the deal with the clone was that he had to be sold along with the original (Pistal). Like he was the breeding stand-in for whoever ended up with Pistal.

That was part of the proposal to AHA, btu as long as AHA doesn't approve it it doesn't matter what happens to the clone.

Wouldn't the chances be good that the clone would have fertility problems as well?

You need to go to FHOTD and read the WHOLE story as it is beyond belief, and yes, the clone goes everywhere with him, like his little lamb.
It is not registered, it does not, legally, exist.
Wonderful, isn't it??
This is the part of animals reproduction, including non live cover and embryo transplant that I HATE!!!

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]You need to go to FHOTD and read the WHOLE story as it is beyond belief, and yes, the clone goes everywhere with him, like his little lamb.
It is not registered, it does not, legally, exist.
Wonderful, isn't it??
This is the part of animals reproduction, including non live cover and embryo transplant that I HATE!!![/quote]

Actually, you can go to ABH and get the story plus ask the original seller -and the one who did the cloning - one of the LD Pistal Group questions. Jeff Sloan is answering questions about the whole thing and ABH'ers are grilling him. Or were. I'm still reading. Not sure I want to read anymore.

I feel so sorry for the clone. It makes no sense to me. Mr. Sloan says that the clone is nothing like LD Pistal. Well.....gee.

The auction has been cancelled apparently. I am interested in what happens to him.

Nice Summary Fizz! THanks!

What is more stunning is that it is implied that his fertility was ruined by man - female hormone injection - first I've heard of that. Surely speculation though.

some people were giving stallions regumate to try to calm stallions down I believe . Might be what happen.

How freakish. I'm so done. My horses are coming home and I think I'll be the only one working with them. I'm so disturbed now. I'm beginning to believe the whole thing is BULLSHIT.

Join the club.

Ha, I just realized the irony in my last post. Join the club... of... not joining the club?? Anyway you know my opinion of breed associations and breed shows in general.

We can have an anti - club Club!! We can call it a Whomping Stick Group instead....

I just realized I cussed and it stayed. When did that happen?!!! Yay!

I noticed that, too. Shhhh! [size=85]We don't want the decency filter back.[/size] ;)

Okay, I found the psychology concept that describes my issue with religion and breed shows.

[b]Group Polarization[/b] The tendency for group decisions to be more extreme than those made by individuals; whatever way the individuals are leaning, group discussion tends to make them lean further in that direction.

So this is what leads to Arabians with faces so dished they have breathing trouble, Quarter Horses so bulky all they can do is stand, AND the crusades, jihad, and the holocaust. Oh, and that Westboro Baptist Church.

I've never heard of them having breathing trouble. More like riding trouble!

But that's very interesting. I'd also like to say that people with more money than they know what to do with should visit me. I'll set 'em straight. Cloning....WTF? They CANNOT make that much money off te MR shows. I just cannot believe it. And breeding for a horse that stands? Oh my.

[quote="Sara"]
So this is what leads to Arabians with faces so dished they have breathing trouble, Quarter Horses so bulky all they can do is stand, AND the crusades, jihad, and the holocaust. Oh, and that Westboro Baptist Church.[/quote]
Wow they have breathing trouble now? I knew about the QH's and just other stock horses being so grossly over muscled. I don't even get how some horse with obvious bad conformation can be a 'world champion' halter horse. I feel like horses are turning into dogs, with the breeding for certain traits that end up harming them and causing tons of problem.
[size=85]Sorry I had to rant. http://www.freewebs.com/amfarms/mighty%…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/size]

I can assure you none of my Arabs had any trouble breathing or being ridden.
Occasionally some people had trouble staying on them but that's not their fault, now is it???

Oh and how about the AHA supporting the reintroduction of horse slaughter.....cos we just [i]know[/i] that if it's brought back it will be correctly regulated and all the nice slaughtermen will be SO kind to the poor widdle horseys.
And ALL my pigs are primed and ready to fly.......
They are just making a noise cos their members have nowhere to dump their overpriced, subfertile, useless pieces of excrement that were only good to look at in the first place and then only if you liked looking at that sort of thing anyway!!
I never did, and I have loved (adored) Arabs all my life.

It really sucks Fizz.

I'm pretty discouraged with them all together.

Neither of my Arabs have trouble breathing or being ridden either. :D

I can't remember where I read or heard it, but I heard that some of the ones with the extreme dishes ("exotic" heads) have issues breathing if they are worked. So, the face pretty much keeps them out of the performance disciplines and all they can do is halter...

I just had a lightbulb moment and I'm pretty sure it was someone on my old Welsh group that said it. She either bred both Arabs and Welshes or bred Arabs before she bred Welshes.

The breathing issue is a myth. What is not a myth is that horses are not built the way they used to be. More for looking pretty than for riding in the halter area. But I think that's across the board. I have to say though, that there was one stock halter horse here that was a vast improvement on the bulky immovable looking ones of late....

I wouldn't be surprised if the breathing thing was NOT a myth... look at some of the breathing problems some dog breeds have turned up with after some crazy breeding. I've got a smooshed face Boxer next door to me that I don't know how he survives his breathing is so labored.

Yes I know horses aren't dogs, but extreme breeding in anything can cause problems.

It's all in the angle of the shot. Even the most dished arab I've ever seen and was actually extremely dished on top does not have breathing problems. Now....if they get the horse's nostrils up between it's eyes as in those dog breeds? Instead they have lengthened the head of the arabian to allow for more dish. And it's .... too bad really. They don't need to breathe much after all. They're not ridden!

I need to stop talking. I know nothing.

I've seen You Tube videos of Arabs at liberty and after just a few minutes of trotting they absolutely appear to be having breathing issues. Then again, maybe someone worked the snot out of 'em before the video started?? I dunno.

Ya?? That's really really effed up because a large nasal passage is one of the many traits arabs used to be known for. Even my lil dished, small nostriled arab mare? Ser's nose opens up to twice the paint mares' size when she's running around.....And I can make her look extremely dished. Guess breathing is just not required anymore.

Well, my only experience with this is through hearsay and videos on the internet so, no, I've never actually put my hands on a horse with this breathing problem. I could be totally wrong. I know the Arab should have excellent breathing capacity and both of my mares do.

I'm trying to find a picture online that shows the internal structure of the horse's head so I can see if an extreme dish would even come in contact with the nasal passages.

I would imagine that it would have to at some point!

This is very extreme, but what about this Sara?

[img]http://www.kakagiarabians.com/images/na…]