Frodo will be getting brain surgery...

Aww, poor little man. I'm sorry! How many collections are you going to do? What's the plan for the semen?

This SUCKS!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'm not sure how many straws we'll keep. I'm debating on that part.
Really, do I just bring him home and breed until I get the colt I want, or do I collect and geld just so he can keep his standings for the year? If I bring him home, he'll probably just stay home. What's the point in starting over next year? My goal for this year was for him to be on top... Well, he's there only to quit now.
I'm just really upset right now. All the time, work, and money just to quit.
But with the economy and everyone dumping the As... It shouldn't be such a hard decision... But it is.

He's quite young. He may just need time. It's a lot to ask a young horse, and he's worked so well for you, he may just be burning out. A season off could settle him to rights.

[color=#8000BF][b]I'm sorry to hear that. :sad

How old is he?? He may just need some time??[/b][/color]

Send him to me, he is just being asked to do far too much, far too young.
I had a Mini stallion sent for reeducation.
From headcase to well behaved stallion took ten months, and when I showed him he stood in the collecting ring and ignored EVERYBODY.
And he was breeding mares at home!!!
And I do mean "Headcase" he came off the trailer on his hindlegs fighting his owner and had been excused from the showring for unruly behaviour...that's how I got him, couldn't keep my mouth shut and ended up saying "Oh bring him to me!!"

I hope you dont have to geld him, maybe hes just being young and silly??

My QH filly is being a right turd at shows atm. She is geting from a dead quite horse at home (or other places we take her other than shows) that a todler can hug her legs, etc, to absolutley a nut case at shows! (even thou she was shown last year as a yearling and was an angel) she is just turning 2, and at a show on the weekend was so uncontroable we had to tie her to a stable where she fought, reared and bucked on the spot, pretty much just being a spolit brat! I have NEVER had a horse behave so badly! she scared me! Yet in the show ring she calmed down and behaved, for an hour then was a nut case again, babies!!! GRRRR

[quote="Maigray"]He's quite young. He may just need time. It's a lot to ask a young horse, and he's worked so well for you, he may just be burning out. A season off could settle him to rights.[/quote]

DITTO!, give him a chance , my first stallion has to get past his teen years to mature and realize he had to keep itin his pants while working and he also spent some time with a donkey to get him mind right , have you considered that ?

How did the donkey help?

Hope you don't have to geld Frodo he's a lovely boy!

yes the donkey helped completely.

How did the donkey help? I mean what was it about the donkey that calmed him down?

donkeys don't put up with crap from anything.
there is a method of halter training cattle and some people use it on horses too where they tie the two animals together. The other critter ends up going where the donk is, and the donk won't put up with shenannigans. I've seen many people, that knew how to use this method, use this successfully

I have pics of how it works and will share if the owner of the pic gives me permission.

also just as a sample for understanding, my stallion as a 2-3 yr old got to be a handful, he was taken first to be tied to a donkey and drug around a field by a donkey , when donk wants to drink, they go drink, one step at a time, he wants to get frisky, donkey scolds him and kicks the tar outta him, he spent a week with donk, then was turnd out with a pack of preg jennets and they would gang up on him like a pack of wolves and put him in his place he went from 1000 ft tall to a mini size personality wise and at the next show he was being lead to the ring by one groom with a mare and a nother stallion, he never made a peep. Stood ringside like a statue. He also went on to earn his AQHA championship that year and lead the nation in green hunter and hunter hack, also went to the world and was top 10 . Think he got 7th if I recall correctly.

LOL. You should have seen Mike's face when I told him I needed a couple donkeys! :o
After a night's sleep I'm feeling much better.
I've asked myself seriously if I feel he's been doing too much and I really don't think so. His attitude gets better when he's learning new things. It's when he gets bored that he acts out more. Hence this show where he "knows it all" and can focus on being naughty. He'd be much worse if he wasn't doing much.
So what is too much for a 4 year old? He gets an hour to an hour and half ride time at home and not more than that at the shows. Is an hour of riding too much? She really changes it up to keep him thinking. From trail to driving. She doesn't drill, she works with him and he learns fast.

I've decided (for now) to bring him home and work on it at home with my mares and to finish his halter points myself. If I can get him to stand at a gate calmly with other ponies around, then I'll decide the next step. I'll cover Silo again and really make him wait until I say OK. I wish I had another mare to "practice" with. Silo is good cause she'll kick the snot out of him if she's not ready as well.
I needed a new project anyway :roll:

I'm not sure it's a question of doing too much. I think it's just a question of youth. I don't think of it as an issue of training or him not knowing what to do, it's just that he is a young stallion and he doesn't always want to do it! Time off in a pasture might teach him to not always rely on his handler to give him a new "toy" or a new distraction, to not always be "primed" for the next ride, the next question asked, the next activity. If little being asked of him, then there is little he can be naughty about.

[quote="Andrea"]I've asked myself seriously if I feel he's been doing too much and I really don't think so. His attitude gets better when he's learning new things. It's when he gets bored that he acts out more. Hence this show where he "knows it all" and can focus on being naughty. He'd be much worse if he wasn't doing much.
So what is too much for a 4 year old? He gets an hour to an hour and half ride time at home and not more than that at the shows. Is an hour of riding too much? She really changes it up to keep him thinking. From trail to driving. She doesn't drill, she works with him and he learns fast.
[/quote]

An hour and a half? actually, I do think that's too much. I'm not usually on my four year olds for more than 30-45 minutes and if they're learning quickly it's even less than that.

I dont think its a matter of how much or to much, its just a phase, he is like a teenager about 17-18 yr old and his focus isnt always on the right job.

I agree that hes just being young. That can happen with any sex, stallions just more often. Dusty was possibly the quietest youngster I've ever met, a gelding, and he still attacked my hat the first time at a show when it blew off :laugh1 And actually I just ran into the first horse ever that I have refused to trim, it was a 2 year old mare. I have better luck "talking" things through with stallions, mares can be complete snot heads when they are bad.

That 2 year old was a tricky situation though, she was recently rescued from an abusive situation and was using violence as a defense. She needs a home btw if anyone wants a project. :lol: Beautiful bay with one and a half blue eyes and a blaze, well built and she has potential, but needs love and a [i]very [/i]firm hand. :shock: She leads and you can handle her for the most part but danged if I'm going near her feet again before she's had more training.

Interesting thoughts everyone. Thanks!
He'll be comning home and I'll be seeing what I can do about his behaviour. I guess what I gauge manners on is what the other 10-20 stallions at the show do. Frodo is the only one who acts like this. Yes, the other stallions drop and some scream occasionally, but Frodo is just bad.
Stallions young and old are able to stand nose to butt to mares without being obnoxious. Why can't he? So we'll work on it. Otherwise... Brain surgery. I can't imagine if he was 15+ hands! What a nightmare!

He is four years old NOW....he was three when all this started...and just look at what is being done with him, saddle class western, driving!!!!!!
Bertie is right now turned out in a field doing nothing, with two colts for company because he has done his harness training and now is the time for it to sink in, so he gets to chill.
If he were being saddle trained I would have done that first, then he would have rested, then he would have done harness, then he would have rested.
He would not have been shown at all.
Frodo was a little highly strung in the first place and now he has had his mind blown!!!
I did this once when I was very young and inexperienced, with a TB X gelding...I trained him to perfection, worked every day (he was five, but very immature) and he started cribbing because I had just overworked his mind.
Frodo is entire so he falls back on his hormones, if you geld him and remove the hormones he will find something else to do, and then where do you go??
Let him down slowly if you are bringing him home, do not just turn him out, he needs to unwind his brain really slowly.

BTW I am APPALLED at the donkey idea!!!
The RSPCA would sue the pants off you if you tried a trick like that here...what would happen if the horse kicked the crap out of the donkey??
Poor donkey!!
HUMANS need to take responsibility for their actions and sort these problems out themselves...believ me in my youth I have done this often and it isn't that hard.
The last one I sorted was a Mini but he did think he was 15 hands, and he was not above kicking...I just tied him up and walked away...first time I did it he freaked, (I was watching him, obviously) but it was freaking for attention.
It took ten months but he got the message.
First mare we went to cover he roared into the yard screaming the odds and striking at me, and got attacked by a crazy midget with a wooden spoon in her hand....he ended up a heap of quivering hormone driven jelly in the corner but BOY did he ever respect me and that wooden spoon!!!
First show we did I carried a wooden spoon stained black instead on a cane and he stood to attention, rode on the trailer with another stallion, and ignored mares in season.
Once he said "Ho Ho" to a mare then looked at me and grinned (I swear he did) never drew, never fretted, came third in a twenty six horse class, and had his owner in a big wet soggy lump of tears on the ramp of her trailer!!
And apart form threatening to turn him into laundry (it was a wash boiler spoon) I never laid a finger on him, I merely dominated him consistently.
It seems to me Frodo is in some doubt as to who is in charge...a stallion that defers to his handler does not scream and yell unless that handler allows him to (men often do).
Rabbit has never drawn in the ring, not even as a colt, I say who he covers, not him, and he does not cover at a show!!!
D.C. drew over some mares when I was bringing him through a paddock the other day and he got a firm talking to. It took a while to get through but he put it away in the end and he is 18 months....but, he knows who is in charge.
Get him home, get him into a routine, and make him listen to you.

I agree with the others, don't geld him.....I am gelding Applause soon but not because he is naughty but because it's time he relaxed and just worried about being a horse rather than watching his field for predators and looking after Cherish all of which he does to perfection and he worries.

I also think Frodo has probably had too much to take in at such a young age - he needs chilling time and patience - you will get there.

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]

BTW I am APPALLED at the donkey idea!!!
The RSPCA would sue the pants off you if you tried a trick like that here...what would happen if the horse kicked the crap out of the donkey??
Poor donkey!!
[/quote]
Its pretty common here on the bigger farms. One guy I know did it with all his colts (expensive reining bred) untill the donkey snapped one day and attacked the one he was in a pen with. :shock: :BH

I rest my case!!

I've never heard of doing that with a horse but I think its rather common with cattle, at least that's what I've heard. I think the main reason it works is from my experience, you can't force a donkey to do anything.

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]I rest my case!![/quote]

I've never heard of the donkey thing... I guess it's a big country. Too big, I think. I mean, what on earth do I have in common with most of the states in the US and how could we ever, as a majority, come to agreement on a single leader? Sorry, off topic mini-rant.

[quote="Sara"][quote="rabbitsfizz"]I rest my case!![/quote]

I've never heard of the donkey thing... I guess it's a big country. Too big, I think. I mean, what on earth do I have in common with most of the states in the US and how could we ever, as a majority, come to agreement on a single leader? Sorry, off topic mini-rant.[/quote]
never heard of it either. I know some people use donkeys as protection but more people are moving away from that since donkeys get pissy and kill calves. Now for protection they use Llamas (which suck when they get loose because they are nearly impossible to rope) and GPs.
When we break cows, we just lead them around ourselves. If we have a truely unreasonable one we will pony it from the tractor or 4wheeler, but we always hold the rope so that we can let it go if they get in trouble.
also wow i got way off topic....sorry...

It's much more common, from what I hear, to put young stroppy colts that trying on their "I'm the Man" attitude in with seasoned pregnant broodies...now that can be some serious lesson learnin'... :laugh1

Diane

I also think it's more of a question of youth. Do as Rabbit says, unwind him slowly and then bring him home for a year or two.

[quote="NZ Appaloosas"]It's much more common, from what I hear, to put young stroppy colts that trying on their "I'm the Man" attitude in with seasoned pregnant broodies...now that can be some serious lesson learnin'... :laugh1

Diane[/quote]

Cory had to spend his whole long yearling/coming two year old winter with a herd of broodmares. Poor little man! :laugh1