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Does anybody here read German?

horsegen April 20, 2010 February 22, 2011

Forums

I have a website that I'd love to have translated, since it appears they might be horning in on some of my research. If anyone can read German, I'd love to have you take a look at it! It's just a short page, nothing major... :)

Sara Wed, 04/21/2010 - 10:08

My son has had five years of German but I imagine that means he speaks like a five year old... not well enough to translate a technical document. I think vneerland might speak German. Where has she been?

horsegen Wed, 04/21/2010 - 13:20

Hmm...I'll try a website translator, but there's going to be a lot of more technical jargon in it (my suspicion is that they copied off our own website). I know vneer speaks Dutch and she's translated for me before...maybe I'll PM her and see if German is on her list as well.

Sara Wed, 04/21/2010 - 13:23

Most Dutch citizens are fluent in English and German and can get by in French so she's an excellent choice for translations. That's what happens when you live in a teeny country with a relatively rare language. When I was a teenager sometimes my Dutch friends would throw a fit and refuse to translate for a while because everyone at the hostels across Europe relied on the Dutch kids so much.

horsegen Wed, 04/21/2010 - 15:46

Oh, fantastic! No rush...and I don't really need a word for word translation. I mostly want to know if it says anything about how they're running the test...what are they testing for? Do they say anything about the accuracy of the test? I'm sure I know what it says about symptoms, inheritance of the disease, etc. I'm more interested in their test specifics. Thanks a bunch!!

http://www.tiho-hannover.de/einricht/zu…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tjuri Wed, 04/21/2010 - 18:26

Main part is about symptoms and inheritance and how you can avoid the disease.

It sounds to me like it is kind of a zygosity test, so they test for markers associated with the locus of the mutation. They point out "it has been developed" and that it is an indirect test.
As for the accuracy they say the results are "with the utmost probability" correct.
They use preferably EDTA-blood samples or hair roots.
Since they also wish to use the samples for further scientific studies, they give a guarantee of the privacy of the data.
I checked on the lab sheets for the samples and there is no further info.

I hope I could help? :flower

BTW: This is the university where I did part of my education as a vet tech... and it is just one hour away - funny how the internet lets distances vanish! :lol:

horsegen Wed, 04/21/2010 - 18:42

Does it say how many markers?

So they say that they want to do further scientific studies themselves, hmm? Thieving varmints...that's MY research they're ripping off! :x

nerd Wed, 04/21/2010 - 22:31

Ouch horsegen, hope your work isn't being scooped! That's devastating! Good luck finding out what's going on and administering justice... :evil:

horsegen Thu, 04/22/2010 - 00:30

Eh, I'm THIS close to publishing, and I know I'm way ahead of them on it, so I'm not worried that they're going to scoop me...I'm just pissed that they're willing to try. It's just a scuzzy thing to do, since they know I've been working on it for so long. I mean seriously, don't you have enough of your own research? Get lost! :evil:

tjuri Thu, 04/22/2010 - 09:23

[quote="horsegen"]Does it say how many markers?

So they say that they want to do further scientific studies themselves, hmm? Thieving varmints...that's MY research they're ripping off! :x[/quote]

Horsegen, no, there is no number of markers mentioned.
I try to understand this:
1. Is it okay they offer the test in the first place? Can this or other tests be legally acquired by any lab? :?
2. If so, I would think they get along with the test enough information to do their own further studies :?:
3. If not, it is just bad style since I assume people busy in the genetic research know what is going on in other labs? :evil:

horsegen Thu, 04/22/2010 - 13:33

1. The "real" test is ours. Many labs in Europe want to offer it to their own clients, and so they have entered into a cooperative agreement with us...they offer the test, then send us the samples and pay us to test them. They report the results to their clients (and make some kind of mark-up on it). Every other lab that offers this test does so in cooperation with us. It ensures accuracy, since no one else has done all the research necessary to make the test as accurate as possible, and we haven't published yet.

THIS lab is offering their own test. I presented some of my early data at a conference a little over a year ago, and the head guy at this lab was really interested in it. After we started offering our test, he asked us if we could tell him how to run it so he could offer it too, and then he'd pay us some kind of percentage from it. We said no, because all the research that went into our test wasn't published yet, and I didn't want to just hand that out to someone else who could then scoop me.

So he took some of the data from my presentation and tried to design his own test, which he now offers (and pays us nothing). His test does not have as many markers as mine (I heard he was only using four--we use in excess of 15), and there have been instances where he gets different results than we do, which tells me his test is not as accurate as ours is. If he gets samples where he can't tell what the result should be, THEN he sends them to us to test and reports our results to the owners.

2. Because their test is designed from some early data I presented, they don't have all the facts, and they don't know everything I know about where the gene for this disease is. With only a few markers in their test, it's easy for them to be "off" in the location...enough that some samples will be typed incorrectly. (Incidentally, I presented the data in that fashion on purpose...I didn't want it to be easy for anyone to copy what I was doing.)

3. Is this okay? Well, legally, yes. But ethically? Well, I'm pissed. He's taken the results of some research he didn't do and used it to make money by offering a test that is lower in accuracy (but he doesn't seem to mention that anywhere). I worry that some owners are getting inaccurate results, and when it's discovered they're not accurate, they might think EVERYONE'S test (including mine) is inaccurate. I mean, if he wanted to offer the test so badly, he could have just done what every other lab did and work with us. But instead, he wants to keep all the profits himself AND he's talking about wanting the samples for "scientific study" which is a big slap in MY face. The equine genetics world is small, and people in our groups really make an effort to not step on each other's toes. I've been working on that research for 10 years, and I've done an enormous amount of work to get the results I have. I am NOT pleased that he's trying to swoop in at the end and get it himself.

tjuri Thu, 04/22/2010 - 18:14

Horsegen, I'm afraid you are right being suspicious - after I read your post I did some further research and found these links:
It seems he is close with the Arabian ass. in Germany, they confirm his institute "offers the tests for a reasonable price and is working on the problem"...
http://www.cerebellar-abiotrophy.org/in…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found another link and it's in English, scroll down: There is another lab testing in France without the licence of cooperation with UCDavis:
http://www.vzap.org/index.php?option=co…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is really bad style :angry and I hope you are way ahead of them so you can publish first! :-bd
Fingers crossed!

horsegen Thu, 04/22/2010 - 20:42

Well, he's not going to beat me, that's for sure. My dissertation is due in July, and I am working on the last TINY bit of research that I need to go into the big publication, which is half-written. Once that paper goes out and is published, everyone will have access to it and he can do whatever he wants with it. But yes, he's a sneaky little jerk and I hope he falls on his face with his inaccurate test. :twisted:

horsegen Fri, 04/23/2010 - 12:10

Some labs do. We've considered it but haven't done it yet. Most labs don't, or haven't in the past, because they're not "service" labs that plan to offer tests to the industry. But recently, some labs have patented their tests. We have to pay royalties to some labs for a couple of the tests we offer. The trick is that the patent process is long and expensive, and there's always some question about whether it's worth it in the long run. I leave those sorts of questions to my boss...I just do the research!

vneerland Wed, 04/28/2010 - 09:57

Walking in waaaaaaaay after the post. Glad that Thjuri could help. I do speak German too, but no doubt hers is better.
It sucks that they are stealing (part of) your research. :evil: Due to my knowledge of who has done it (to you) before, I have lost all respect for a certain lab in Holland and have since spotted many big misses. :shock: It is amazing how they can blind the public, when the public just assumes that (they are totally reputable) In my example they tested a dog breed on extention 'E' to determine if the specimen carried 'yellow'. Never mind that all members of said breed are E/E and that 'yellow' in their case is determined by the K locus. :roll: (and those poor owners are going to wonder how on earth they have yellow pups when the test said 'no yellow detected) Fools. :BH In the land of the blind?
I hope you beat them and I hope you can point out that it was YOUR work not theirs, that got the (first) test. :ugeek: