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DNA Man to the Rescue...or well, proof!!

NZ Appaloosas November 08, 2011 November 08, 2011

Forums

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2058717/Its-symbolic-Sci… Seems Lp is/was a wild mutation, and not the result of "modern" breeding. Diane

CMhorses Tue, 11/08/2011 - 07:19

I'll have to email this to my art history teacher, I clearly remember her telling us that they had to be abstract and not realistically painted because of the pattern. Also, the dalmatian thing is very weird, people probably wouldn't understand what leopard appaloosa is though. :BH

Third Peppermint Tue, 11/08/2011 - 08:27

I assumed that the "Dalmatian horse" was used for people that have no clue what an Appaloosa is - pretty much everyone knows that a Dalmatian is white with dark spots.

Anyway, that's cool that it such an old mutation and such a common one at that!

Threnody Tue, 11/08/2011 - 09:02

Hey admin! Is it possible to start a list of gene mutations and the earliest known records of when/where they likely originated?

Daylene Alford Tue, 11/08/2011 - 10:16

Yep we can do that. I'm on a really slow connection ATM but I'll be home tomorrow. I think setting this up as a timeline/flow chart might be a good idea?

rabbitsfizz Tue, 11/08/2011 - 13:37

Hang on a mo....we cannot yet positivley get the Lp testing right- is it still not a zygostiy thing? Yet they can test bones thousnads of years old for the "leopard" gene??????

Third Peppermint Tue, 11/08/2011 - 14:20

I was wondering that, too. Maybe they're friends with the Appy researchers or ARE the appy researchers and have the inside scoop?

Threnody Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:12

[quote=admin]Yep we can do that. I'm on a really slow connection ATM but I'll be home tomorrow. I think setting this up as a timeline/flow chart might be a good idea?[/quote]

Awesome! I like the timeline idea. :HB

[quote=Third Peppermint]Here: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/…]

Very cool! XD

rabbitsfizz Wed, 11/09/2011 - 12:14

Maybe they are linked to the Doctor?
Give me five minutes in a Tardis and I could change the world.

Well, the horse colour world, anyway!!

Threnody Wed, 11/09/2011 - 17:42

^ That. And since there is a direct test for LP I trust the article. Just because the LP test isn't commercially available to the public doesn't mean it isn't scientifically available.

Daylene Alford Wed, 11/09/2011 - 19:37

Rebecca Bellone is listed as one of the researchers on the article. I believe she is one of the researchers that was involved in locating LP.

rabbitsfizz Thu, 11/10/2011 - 13:32

Oh, and, in my role as official Forum skeptic....just because they had Lp does not mean they were spotted!

I am not actually sceptical about the possibility of Lp being a "natural" pattern, and the Appaloosa pattern had to come from somewhere, so a natural progression makes a bit more sense than a spontaneous mutation (I know they can happen but more often things are naturally explained- hence Splash/Sabino Pinto Arabians and TBs) but, as an artist (among other things) and having looked carefully at these paintings, I have never felt that they were of spotted ponies- the artists were capable of true colour representation and were able to realistically depict in a way that still leaves me speechless- so why are the spots round and evenly distributed and all over the body?
Presumably these people would prize these skins and therefore the artists would have first hand experience of exactly what they looked like- yet they do not depict them.
And why are there no Blanket/Near Leopard, Snowflake etc?

It is all just a little too convenient....

Threnody Thu, 11/10/2011 - 17:59

I agree with you Fizz. And I'd be concerned if you weren't the one being skeptical lol.

We'll find out if they were spotted when a PATN gene is isolated. Since PATN needs LP to express PATN could be older than we think. Since before LP it would have no way of being selected by its outward expression through natural selection.

The Appaloosa Project says they are in a waiting game. They are awaiting hearing back from labs that may decide to carry it.

Third Peppermint Fri, 11/11/2011 - 10:03

Maybe having PATN is the wild state and non-PATN or variants of PATN are more modern mutations? Just a thought!

Third Peppermint Fri, 11/11/2011 - 10:06

Actually, if you look closer at the pictures at least one of the "leopard" spotted horses has a dark head and neck. Blanket?

NZ Appaloosas Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:55

We're having the discussion of leopard level of expression vs. blanket level of expression on another forum (FB group). Basically, this article/research proves that some sort of appaloosa-sort spotted horse existed way back then...the level of expression is still up for theories.

As for Rebecca being involved, well, she IS the molecular geneticist part of the Appaloosa Project ;-) It just makes sense that she'd be the one that the "horse-fossil" researchers approached on the subject.

As to why it isn't commercially available yet, last I heard there was discussion/negotiation regarding royalties, etc., for offering the test. So it's solely a "legal" issue that the Lp test isn't commercially available yet.

Diane

RiddleMeThis Sat, 11/26/2011 - 15:20

I just thought I would mention that Animal Genetics has been testing for LP since at least the beginning of November. Its not on their forms yet (or wasn't) but if you ask them, they will do it.