Coat Colors over Time

Third Peppermint December 28, 2011 December 28, 2011

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Hey all! I'm working on an infographic for equine coat colors over time. So far I have the earliest known black, bay, chestnut, tobiano, sabino 1, cream, silver, and leopard spotted horses. I am currently trying to find literature related to horse colors to supplement the archaeological samples tested. Does anyone have ANY insight into this? So far I've been trying to decipher Roman literature (thank goodness for those four years of Latin) but I've been having trouble. A) http://www.york.ac.uk/media/archaeology/documents/researchdegrees/phdth… Look on page 36. Does that horse look more like an artist saw a brindle horse and assumed a striped horse thing looked as such? I guess that's besides the point B) I'm trying to figure out if Xanthos means bay, dun, or palomino. Aureus means gold, but... what does Xanthos mean? I've seen references to all of the above. If it means blonde that could mean palomino (or flaxen chestnut) as opposed to dun or bay. Are there any good paintings or frescos of horse colors? I'm trying to link the infographic to human events to help people "place" to colors mentally. I've gotten bay and bay leopard appaloosa with ancient humans and Neanderthals; bay and black horses (+/- appaloosa) with the start of farming and the same in the Copper Age (first metal smelting and Ötzi he Iceman's time), except with the addition of the first chestnut allele (under a black horse.) Then I had the Bronze Age explode with horse colors: the first chestnut horse in Siberia along with the first tobiano and sabino 1. The, in the Iron Age, but before the Romans, cream and silver popped up. I got nothing on any other colors. It looks like grey is pretty ancient, but I haven't seen any archaeological tests done. Palomino or buckskin SHOULD exist during the Roman times, though. I got nothing on frame and splash (except Bucephalus was black with a white star and a blue eye.... splash?), rabicano, roan, champagne, pearl, and ??? I can't think of what I'm missing. Well, dun. There isn't a good test for dun, but are there any references to dorsal stripes and leg barring? Advice, thoughts, sources? Top Gear is on and I'm tipsy so sorry if this doesn't make sense.

I think that is a zebra,

Daylene Alford Wed, 12/28/2011 - 21:05

I think that is a zebra, especially as it is along side a gazelle. Sorry I can't help with the Latin. Your project sounds awesome can't wait to see it finished.

Frame and champagne both

Monsterpony Thu, 12/29/2011 - 01:01

Frame and champagne both occurred in North America so they are pretty recent. Pearl is older since there is reference to it in Iberian horses for quite a ways back. Silver is at least 1000 years old as it is in the Icelandic herds; splash also.

admin wrote:I think that is a

Third Peppermint Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:13

[quote=admin]I think that is a zebra, especially as it is along side a gazelle. Sorry I can't help with the Latin. Your project sounds awesome can't wait to see it finished.[/quote]

I had gotten that impression, too, but there are other mosaics and things with definite horses and gazelles together. Like: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/2…

Could still be a zebra. I guess. I just want to rock the boat.

EDIT: That and Romans would have seen zebras since they were brought back to Rome and taught to pulls carts and whatnot.

If you have any specific

Krickette Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:48

If you have any specific Latin questions, I was going to go visit my old Latin teacher this week to pick up my old Gladius I made. I could ask him for you.

Also, I'd assume Xanthos is a

Krickette Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:53

Also, I'd assume Xanthos is a reference to the mythical horse? Like did they call horses Xanthos colored? Were they referring to the fact that they looked like Xanthos?
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology…

Heres some cruddy cell phone

Krickette Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:01

Heres some cruddy cell phone pics from the museum we went to in toronto. I don't have any details on any of them though, I just took pictures of all the ponies.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/

Krickette Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:04

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:…
here's some buckskins from the Han dynasty
http://i55films.photoshelter.com/galler…
sorrel and a grey from india
http://www.trojanhorse2011.com/updates/…
the leaping bull sure looks frame, but alas it is not a horse
http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/…
no clue what this color is supposed to be
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:…
more that look buckskin
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.ph…
oodles of old frescos
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.ph…
some of those aren't very old haha, but there are some good ones in there

I would bet those Han dynasty

Monsterpony Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:24

I would bet those Han dynasty horses are bay duns rather than buckskins. One of the images has a stripe on its back and we know that bay duns are common there.

Thanks Krickette! Xanthos was

Third Peppermint Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:28

Thanks Krickette! Xanthos was a fairly common horse name I think? It referred to the color.

Here's an example: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art…

Not sure what they mean by "yellow," though. Buckskin, palomino, bay dun, pearl, double dilute dunskin??? They need to be more descriptive.

"yellow" as in "claybank"

NZ Appaloosas Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:03

"yellow" as in "claybank" referred to a very particular shade of dun, like what Lorne Greene rode in Bonanza, in the wild west, which was also heavily Hispanic-influenced, if that's any help.

When I was in Greece, I don't remember hearing the word "xanthos" used in conjunction with the pali gelding that was at the barn at which I rode, and he was more "yellow" than "gold", if that's any help.

Diane