Burgundy Sun

Yes, apparently he is a "rare" black chestnut. UGH I HATE it when people use that term so pointlessly, it is quite probable that there is nothing at all inheritable about his colour which, whilst unusual, is far from rare. He is at stud and ships semen. No price.
He is nice, I guess, but I like more substance, and I would also like a date on all the photos........

This line is known to throw livers. But ya, his color is striking. I didn't know they allowed outside breeding. I'm sure they didn't used to.

This was posted in March of 09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4hx6BHO…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There was a Phara mare I was tempted to get rid of my husband over....I can't remember her name, a liver but not quite as dark....

What is the Phara line? I'm not that up of all of the Arab lines. The only Arab I had ever owned was a little Raffles bred mare and she was a delightful [b]little[/b] thing. I bought her for my kids because she was so cute, she looked like a unicorn out of a fairy tale, just missing the horn....lol.

"Little" is a relative term. None of my Arabs was over 14.2hh which, as far as I am concerned, is the right size for an Arab!
If you want to see little and cute.....and [i]really[i] like a unicorn....
[img]http://www.wolfscastle.co.uk/unicorns%2…]

Ahhhhhhh Adorable, and spotless I might ad.........this is the little one we had that is my daughter Esther up on her when whe was just a little tike. Ours "Mariah" was her name, was only about 13.2 but that is quite common for the Raffles lines from what I understand, it was fine with me she was a perfect little "small adult" which I am, and childs mount. She was gaited as well. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mariah+z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Phara Farm is a tiny little breeding program. But their focus is unique. They have inbred intensively to a single individual, a stallion by the name of Lewisfield Sun God. Sun God was the product of a full brother/sister mating - both his sire and dam were sired by a tiny little stallion named Raffles. Raffles was also the product of inbreeding. As an experiment, his breeder, the Lady Wentworth, crossed her famous stallion, Skowronek, back to his own daughter, Rifala. Raffles was the result.

Sun God so impressed the breeder, she chose the best descendants she could find, bred them together, and then progressively bred their produce back to each other. They're on the 6th/7th/8th generation now. Phara Farm has produced very few foals, sold even fewer, and never shows them. But the "look" of the horses, and their color, has become a bit famous. A network of breeders has now sprung up dedicated to preserving the "Phara" horses. There's a website for both the original farm - http://www.pharafarm.com/" - and the "heritage society" site - http://pharaheritagesociety.com/index.h…"

I've profiled them in our galleries under "Flaxen" and "Sooty." They were one of the earliest examples I encountered of an extreme sooty effect, and they are worth studying because the breeding group is so small and concentrated.

Jenks, I never knew if they were closed to the public, only that they were never advertised. The shipped semen is certainly new. Burgundy Sun must be getting quite old now. I know Majestic Sun recently died, but Pharao and Golden Ecstasy have been advertised and standing to the public for a few years at other farms. A new stallion, Wings of Gold, has also been produced.

so what colour is he then chestnut with sooty ? very nice colour whatever it is

Thanks for posting that site Maigray, I knew about Skowronek because I studied the Raffles line a bit when I had the Raffles bred mare but I didn't know this Phara lines traced back to Raffles as well......intresting. You can see from the pic/pedigree I posted that little mare I had struck quite a resemblance to Raffles as she was line bred Raffles and grey.

I quite like the phara Arabs. And my Nike has Raffles lines. He has the Raffles bump to prove it!

Years ago I contacted someone - very nice - but the only way I could have one was to get one via one of their mares prior to it's birth if I remember correctly. Long time ago....but then that society popped up and I found someone offering a mare. By then I was teetering on the edge of a collector ;) One more would be more than I could really do.

Do you think that they named him that knowing he'd be pretty dark? I wonder if they had any idea he would be sort of burgundy...or if they waited awhile to name him...

[quote="Krickette"]I quite like the phara Arabs. And my Nike has Raffles lines. He has the Raffles bump to prove it![/quote]

My gelding also has Raffles, what is the "Raffles bump"?

[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-s…]
see the bump on his nose? It dishes in and then bumps back out. Raffles' nose did the same, and lots of his descendants' do too

Nice head!
I think there is far more of Raffles in the original mare than a bump, though, she is the Raffles "stamp" which very few horses nowadays are. Remember Raffles was under 14.00.... That was the reason Lady W packed him off to the states, that and the fact that she thought he was infertile! I cannot remember all the story but he was so quiet they did not geld him and he was used as a riding pony for the kids, then he covered, either by chance or deliberately, a mare, not an Arab just a pony mare, and she took in foal and the rest is history!

I think that's called a moose nose(and it's combined with a dished face on that one) My TWH had a moose nose, but on a flatter profile.
Here is a pic of him that shows it off on his big ol' head pretty well
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j36…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, that is not what it is as it is usually coupled with a tiny muzzle and a short head. It is just a typical Arab head, and I do not associate it with Raffles, particularly. It does seem to go with Crabbet breeding, though, so perhaps that is where it comes from?

Thanks, Rabbit! I think he's rather handsome (though a tad overweight haha)

Yes, Nike's an "American Arabian" haha, he has a bit of everything, and certainly has Crabbet. I have noticed it a lot more on those horses. I do know that my friend's Egyptians don't have it, their heads are perfectly dished with no bumps...

it can be on any sized muzzle and any shape head. That's just what it looks like to me...a moose nose with a small muzzle and dished profile. My guy just happened to have a straight profile and large muzzle.

Is that what they called a rabbit nose or ram nose or something over in China?

They call it a camel nose too..It's accentuated when you linebreed, which lots of people did/do. The Phara program is but one example. Since Raffles was inbred to his own sire, and Skowronek backs the majority of all Arabian pedigrees, any time you breed, and particularly when you linebreed/inbreed to horses of Crabbet descent, a certain "look" tends to pop out.

Possibly, but [i]not[/i] a "Moose" nose!!
Jibbah, probably, bump, possibly, but a Moose has one heck of a big, clumpy, nose, and Raffles stock just do not have that.

I do not like the term "moose" either! Jibbah I thought though was between the eyes - more of the forehead bump?

it's just what it is called...lol. I've heard it a lot around here, No where near the size of a real moose nose..haha. I've even seen it in a few books too, come to think of it. They just refer to it as showing up as a bulge on the lower part of the nose. I've seen small moose noses on horses and big HONKIN' true moose sized ones as well.

Jibbah is the forehead area Jenks. It's a bulge on the forehead. Jibbah: Arabic word for the bulge in the forehead often seen in Arabian horses. At one time it was thought that such a bulge indicated a larger brain, but instead it indicates larger sinuses.
Found that on arabianhorses.org

LOL ya, it just doesn't sound very flattering does it? What's the arabic word for bulge in the nose? Perhaps that will go over better!

[quote="Krickette"][img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-s…]
see the bump on his nose? It dishes in and then bumps back out. Raffles' nose did the same, and lots of his descendants' do too[/quote]

Ah ha! Azeem has that too...not very prominent, but it is noticeable.
[img]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147…]

Saxon has it too but he's not part arab :)

Aah, hang one, you are talking about the bump further down?
Not the "stop" caused by the jibbah??

I think a lot of native Chinese horses have that, too.

[quote]Aah, hang one, you are talking about the bump further down?
Not the "stop" caused by the jibbah??[/quote]

Yeah, they're talking about the bump farther down, not the jibbah!

I need a light bulb over my head...but then, it would be so seldom used....