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What white pattern?

I asked before about Bid o Color and people said he was only frame, when I still think he is a very minimal sabino because of the neck roaning mainly, and he does have a white coronet band on his right back foot you cant see.… Holiday...bah cant remember his registered name but anyway, I know hes at least tobiano, the odd way the white goes across his side makes me wonder about a possible frame, he does have a star and a snip.…

Daylene Alford Fri, 02/20/2009 - 22:55

Has Bid O Color actually been tested for frame? Just curious.

You can't say for sure that any horse does not have sabino (except perhaps an Icelandic). If a solid horse can carry frame than why can't a solid horse carry sabino?

I think he probably does have sabino.

CMhorses Fri, 02/20/2009 - 23:00

Only horses we ever had tested for any genetic stuff was Doctor Color (his father) and our other buckskin stallion, and even then it was for parantage and leathal white and not colors at least I dont think.
Also no reason to test him other than just to know since hes an older gelding and isnt even trained for anything.

Jenks Sun, 02/22/2009 - 06:56

I would say that it's probable that he is something else as well. Hard to see his blaze around the nose, but I believe it's splash that tries to take the nose, frame that restricts leg white in the front, but, the odd thing is that usually these two patterns go wild on a red. Perhaps that is why they think he may be just frame? Obviously not always though. I am tempted to have one of mine -a red also - tested just to see if he has frame (out of frame mare) and he's almost solid.

Is there any white on the face of the Tobi? His rear socks look sabino.

CMhorses Sun, 02/22/2009 - 14:07

To ease any confusion, and probably cause more... This is their father,Doctor Color.
This is Holiday Color's mother. (shes the bay mare, and the one behind her is her own mother)
This is Bid oh Colors mother.(a full sister to holidays grandmother)
More pictures of Holiday.
More of Bida.

Not that it will help any, but this is a full sister to holiday.
Bida also has a full brother that is completely solid

Also, I just found out that photobucket has a thumbnail option!! so you can link pictures as only a thumbnail meaning they are all clickable.

critterkeeper Wed, 02/25/2009 - 09:17

I also suspect something besides "just frame" is at work on Bid O Color. That neck spot is roany, and very well could be sabino.

As for Holiday - there is something besides tobi going on with him as tobi does not put on face white. BUT, I am not convinced it is frame because the edges just aren't as jagged as I would expect with frame. It looks more sabino to me.

CMhorses Wed, 02/25/2009 - 15:10

I thought holiday had some high leg white for a tobi...pretty sure they [i]normally[/i] dont have white above the knee, but I could be wrong

accphotography Sun, 03/08/2009 - 15:51

[quote="CMhorses"]I thought holiday had some high leg white for a tobi...pretty sure they [i]normally[/i] dont have white above the knee, but I could be wrong[/quote]

Actually, it's just the opposite. Tobianos DO normally have white above the knee, "overos" do not.

The original horse is definitely frame and sabino.


CMhorses Mon, 03/09/2009 - 02:06

So the general idea is Bida is probably frame/sabino and holiday is probably tobiano/sabino?

Excites me that our stallion is a frame/tobiano/sabino carrier too.

accphotography Mon, 03/09/2009 - 02:26

They might have thought Bida was only frame because of the lack of leg white. White on the body and no leg white = frame virtually every time. I would suspect sabino for the roaning, and the face really does look suspicious of splash the way it rails to the side and has a heavy, squarish snip. All three overo patterns on a red base and he's got that little white, probably some suppression at work there. For some reason (the shape of the spots), that doesn't surprise me.

Holiday is definitely suspicious. No doubt tobiano and most likely sabino. I'm not certain on the frame, but the pattern sure does move strangely. It's relatively unusual to have that much white on the front half and that little on the back half of a tobi. One low hind stocking, horizontal movement of white on the body, definitely suspicious of frame. IME frame prefers to take the white off back legs first and tobiano prefers to hold on to the backs, so that low back says alot for me.


CMhorses Mon, 03/09/2009 - 14:42

Well I was just wondering because Doc has never sired a foal with blue eyes at all,but some of them have had alot lower facial white, and white under the chin and jaw. What white patterns could cause that?

accphotography Mon, 03/09/2009 - 15:59

Sounds like splash to me, but I'm sure sabino does it too sometimes. Personally I think the white under the jaw is splash.


CMhorses Mon, 03/09/2009 - 16:24

So would you say this stallion is splash? (yea I know you guys are tired of these pictures,but I tried to find the ones that show where the color stops on his face)
Hes had some foals with alot of facial white, and some with stars and stripes, snips and then some with no facial or white at all. (my avatar is one of his foals)

CMhorses Mon, 03/09/2009 - 16:35

Cool, I never really thought of a splash without the blue eyes, but I dont know alot about that pattern at all. Is it uncommon to find a horse with all 4 of the pinto patterns? It was suggested he is tobiano/frame/sabino before.

accphotography Mon, 03/09/2009 - 16:40

Not really, at least not in Paints. Sabino is pretty much everywhere whether we see it or not. Splash is very common in Paints (albeit minimal in some lines, loud in others), and of course frame and tobi are pretty common as well.


Morgan Mon, 03/09/2009 - 18:34

Yeah, the more Paints in the pedigree the more chance of having multiple patterns. Quite common in ones with two paint parents. And you never know which if any will come out in the foals (unless you know their homozygous for tobiano or SB1 of course)

Although you don't allways need a lot of paint blood for that. My broodmare is tobiano, splash and sabino, very highly marked with two blue eyes and is mostly QH. It's quite funny actually. This is her:…" onclick=";return false;
and this is her pedigree:…" onclick=";return false;
(click on green names for pics) If it wasnt for the one little tobiano line she would BE a QH. :lol: I wish I could find a pic of Cowboy Ranger, I want to know if he was as highly marked as Promises kept.

Monsterpony Mon, 03/09/2009 - 19:02

Morgan- I like the overo the pops up in Rapid Ranger, but I don't think that he was born almost a hundred years before his sire :D

Morgan Mon, 03/09/2009 - 19:11

:shock: :lol: #-o :bounce

[i]*wanders off to find what deep dark and remote hole frontpage has fallen into since she used it last*[/i]

CMhorses Mon, 03/09/2009 - 22:46

I knew she was tobiano and something else, just wondered if anyone had an idea on what else is going on here.