Do Clydesdales have DW?

IMO... ABSOLUTELY. I'm not even convinced they're "sabino" at all. I think they're DW instead.

Interesting! You've got me seeing DW everywhere now LOL!

That tends to happen once you get an idea of "the look" it seems to create. :D

I started seeing it on that Belgian mare I used to own. LOL

Quick! Run! It's CONTAGIOUS!!! :rofl

I think it would be very likely . They are thought to be H/Z for whatever it is (!) and they all test neg for Sab1, now, this is just a very wild what if, but, what if Sab 1 was [i]the[/i] Sabino and everything else was DW??

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]I think it would be very likely . They are thought to be H/Z for whatever it is (!) and they all test neg for Sab1, now, this is just a very wild what if, but, what if Sab 1 was [i]the[/i] Sabino and everything else was DW??[/quote]

Get out of my head!

I was thinking the same thing. The only thing that makes me wonder is horses with socks and blazes that aren't SB1 and not splash, but don't seem to have enough expression to make me thing DW. Someone needs to start testing those horses for DW.

the belgian mare I used to own is free to a good home last I heard when I found her not long ago....someone should go get her (I would if there was any possible way I COULD). She's in OH. I keep hoping that something good will happen and I can go get "Big Momma"
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DW is thought to be homozygous lethal so it can't be the sole cause for the phenotype in Clydes. There is however no reason to think it's not present in the gene pool. Especially looking at the above example.

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]I think it would be very likely . They are thought to be H/Z for whatever it is (!) and they all test neg for Sab1, now, this is just a very wild what if, but, what if Sab 1 was [i]the[/i] Sabino and everything else was DW??[/quote]

BINGO!!! I've been saying this for a bit now, but I can't make all the kinks in the theory work out yet. We may end up finding out that the lines between the sabino(s) and DWs is VERY blurry. Since they're mutations of the same gene that wouldn't be all that surprising. Some more thoughts below...

[quote="Third Peppermint"]The only thing that makes me wonder is horses with socks and blazes that aren't SB1 and not splash, but don't seem to have enough expression to make me thing DW. Someone needs to start testing those horses for DW.[/quote]

I agree. I doubt there's any way they're DW. However I would believe they might be some other type of sabino that is just pretty basic and never does anything but "standard" markings. However, we've all seen very normally marked horses throw all whites so... I dunno. It's still pretty confusing.

[quote="TheRedHayflinger"]
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Almost surely splash too... but I definitely get a DW vibe from the way the white goes up under her jaw.

[quote="admin"]DW is thought to be homozygous lethal so it can't be the sole cause for the phenotype in Clydes. There is however no reason to think it's not present in the gene pool. Especially looking at the above example.[/quote]

It's thought to be in some families (dues to the exons affected) but not only is it not proven yet they haven't said it about all the mutations. It's possible that some of them are capable of being homozygous if they don't affect certain exons. Either Horsegen or Monster (or maybe even DCS?) talked to us about this at one point and explained the reason believed t be the cause of the homozygous problem and why it may be true in some mutations and not others. I wish I could remember all that was said or find the thread.

Maybe KIT just mutates a lot considering the number of DWs. I think I've heard people here saying that there could be quite a few mutations that cause white markings. How many white patterns are confirmed not KIT anyway? Can't be that many. I'm going to blame all of these markings on random mutations that look the same phenotypically.

Frame is not on KIT and they're pretty sure splash isn't either. Otherwise I think they all are. :rofl

Is it possible that DW causes Sabino to express in a different way to DW + other things? Since they are "related" could they affect one another in a way that other patterns do not affect them, (and yes, I know that the moon [i]could[/i] be green cheese, but isn't so almost anything is possible but I am just throwing ideas into the ring...hey, the Appy people do it all the time, they even put it out as fact, that drives me nuts, too!)

[quote="accphotography"]Frame is not on KIT and they're pretty sure splash isn't either. Otherwise I think they all are. :rofl[/quote]

Lp isn't. Was roan found on KIT?

Diane

Oh I have never considered roan a white pattern (but yes, it is ALSO on KIT). LP I hadn't considered because I guess I look at it as something different as well.

Why don't you consider roan a white pattern? It is a mutation that causes certain hairs on the body to be devoid of pigment, which is a white pattern in my mind.

Note- I am genuinely curious, not trying to be pushy or snarky.

Roan seems different to me too, the one I had experience of, was standard roan in summer with the mix of white and coloured hairs but in winter the coat went solid chestnut on the surface with a white undercoat. It reminded me of pearl in rats and smoke in cats. If it was a finely spread white marking it would be the same all the time?
Does anyone do any research into what is actually happening physically when markings are formed in a horse embryo?

[quote="Monsterpony"]Why don't you consider roan a white pattern? It is a mutation that causes certain hairs on the body to be devoid of pigment, which is a white pattern in my mind.
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I think of it like gray (which I also don't think of as a white pattern even though it causes hairs on the body to be devoid of pigment and white).

It doesn't cause pink skin and white markings so its not a white "pattern".

To me grey and roan are very different. Grey functions by causing an overdrive of pigment production that eventually fails and uncolors the horse. I don't even think of grey as a color at all. Roan, on the other hand, causes specific hairs in a specific pattern to be unpigmented.

[quote="Monsterpony"]Roan, on the other hand, causes specific hairs in a specific pattern to be unpigmented.[/quote]
But they dont STAY unpigmented. Roans go back to looking just about nonroan in the winter. And again its just the hair, not the skin.

I consider it, like gray, a modifier because it modifies the base but doesn't change it.

So, maybe Roan only affects summer coat hair?
I have oftne wondered why my Black Roans go black in winter......

Some roans do the opposite and effect the horse during the winter and not the summer.

Roan does affect the winter coat. If you part the hairs it will be highly visible. Maybe its affecting just part of the hairs? I just never really thought about it. My roans are growing their winter coats now. I'll have to check them in about a month.

I agree with Monsterpony. I would call roan is a white pattern.

I wonder if roan only affects a certain layer of the coat. Maybe the guard hairs that grow in for the winter coat are either only non-roan (most common) or occasionally roan. I know that my roans have always gotten a dark coat in the winter that can be parted to see obvious roaning. Then in the spring, they dropped their dark colored hair first, making them look almost white for a short time before the entire winter coat is shed. Also, there are other white patterns that change. Sabino roan shifts around the body and doesn't always change the skin pigment.

To me roan is a color, not a pattern. It is an overlay color, but a color nonetheless. I agree that if it doesn't produce white spots or cause pink skin it's just not a pattern to me.

I've always thought of it (Roan) as a white patterning- similar to Sabino ticking which I also think of as a white pattern/s.

I agree with Fledge. Don't see how it can be a colour, it is just a distribution of white hairs mixed in with the "colour".

to me roan has always been a modifier, not a white pattern...for me, white pattern has pink skin under it.

I drive by several true roans every day, and over half of them, in the winter, still look like your classic true roan. But I've also seen the ones that seem to "disappear" in winter unless you part the hair and look at the base of the hair.

Sabino is a pattern because it creates white markings. If sabino only created roaning I wouldn't consider it a white pattern either.

So would you consider LP roaning a modifier or a white pattern?