Could it be Dun? Welsh again

Just looks like a buckskin to me. The silvery look is from baby or young fur from what I've seen.

Looks like a normal buckskin foal to me. Still has his foal countershading (which some keep into adulthood) and the mane and tail is a combination of buckskin frosting and baby flaxen. JMHO of course.

This is by the same sire... Look at the leg markings:
http://www.newtonhillponies.com/atstud…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty par for the course Buckskin......

Very pretty buckskin!

Don't know about Dun, feel more like Buckskin.

Right front leg is solid as other three have white, so I say frame as well. (Do Welsh have frame?)

Only splash and sabino in Welsh.

Yes, that off centre star shouts Splash to me.....since when (and for the love of God...WHY????) did the US take Welsh Ponies up to 14.2hh????
And rename them Welsh Hunter Ponies?????
Honestly, sometimes I despair, I really do!

Also, anyone else notice on their site, under Downland Condor, who is a smokey black, that evidently he carries the "Palomino Gene"? D:

http://www.glenhavenwelsh.com/section_b…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone else notice the "Palomino Gene" that Downland Condor (smokey black) carries? D:

Suzanne is a knowledgeable and well-respected breeder so I wouldn't fault her much for not being up on all the color terms.

Also, I don't mind the large Welshes but then again I'm in the hunter world. I have learned here to carefully refer to some of my ponies as hunter ponies rather than Welshes though. ;) I'll post some photos and video later of my, um, medium [i]hunter pony[/i] who got to free jump earlier today.

The Welsh Pony is NOT a "Hunter Pony" if you want to breed them, that is absolutely fine and there is obviously a market for these quality ponies, BUT the Welsh Pony is not a Hunter Pony it is a RIDING PONY and it stops at 13.2hh.
If you wish to breed quality Hunter Ponies in the States, do so, just do not try to change an ancient breed and hi jack it for your purposes!!
This is what happened with the American "shetland" and I just think it is so daft....here is your chance to create something pretty unique, certainly unique in the States, why on earth do you have to try to change an already existant and very successful breed??
Why not call them American Hunter Ponies and claim them for your own??
Although the height of Welsh Cobs and the weight of Sec C ponies has fluctuated over the years there has never been a call or a need for Welsh Ponies,[i] real[/i] Welsh Ponies in the taller height range.
If you have found a need, claim it for your own.
I just do not understand Americans, sometimes, I really don't!!! ;)

Didn't you know... We low life Americans just like to f@%k with a good thing.
Maybe the ponies we imported couldn't tolerate our overweight over indulged kids and we needed something bigger.
Maybe it's all the hormones we put in the feed that caused them to grow to gigantic proportions and we needed to change the height standards to fit our uses.
Or we fed the hormones to the kids and thus needed larger ponies?
Whatever the reason, it's the WPCS of America. Not like we're trying to ship them back to the UK and infect the naitive ponies with our sub par strains and dastardly tall ponies. The horror.
I wanna know why Canadians aren't getting sh!t for changing the heights for their Welsh society.
How is it an Arab breeder can breed for racing, cross country, dressage, and show jumping and stick to a breed standard? People of ALL nationalities will use a breed for their chosen dicipline and over the course of time, that breeder will change the look and type of their horses/ponies. It's not JUST Americans! :roll:
K. I'ma gonna go take a pill now.

hahahahahahaha Andrea! I applaud your little outburst!

Actually, Rabbit, I don't own a single Welsh over 13.2 so I don't have any of this dreadful stock you speak of... (I think my tallest one at the moment is Texas at 13.0) but I do like large ponies. So... whether they are full Welsh or half Welsh or grade doesn't really matter to me as long as they have the look, the trot, and the jump. ;)

LOL. I had a nap and feel much better!
I was thinking it would be assinine for someone on the east coast to NOT advertise their ponies as sport ponies or hunter ponies. East coast has few breed shows and the big $$ come from "sport" ponies.
I mean if I'm in an area that sells western pleasure ponies for 20K, you can bet I'm going to advertise my sale stock as anything that moves slow and can push a peanut! :o
Isn't that the purpose of breeding? Finding that niche that your stock can bring in the most $$. Shoot. I've seen miniature horses sold as miniature Arabs because the breeder is in Arab country. Why is there anything wrong with that???
OH well. Good night. I'm still recovering from the long weekend and I've gotta sleep!

Sorry people, I meant the "you" generically, I was just sounding off, not having a go at anyone in particular...it just annoys me to see these animals advertised as "Welsh" when they aren't Welsh by any standards whatsoever.
Over here we have Trading Standards, set up by the government (and we do love our government jobsworths, how would we live without them??) and that would not be allowed, in order to be a [i]Welsh[/i] Pony it has to conform to the rules, otherwise it is just a pony....and as I said, you are missing such a chance, yet again, to claim this animal as your own....what about an [i]American[/i] Hunter Pony????
Why try to hijack an existing breed??
You missed the chance with the Shetland, it is quite obviously not a Shetland Pony of any sort or description, it is also just as obviously a very beautiful, totally unique breed, so why not claim it??
American Show Pony, anyone??
After all we have the British Show Pony, a stallion of which, crossed on a larger Welsh would breed you a really nice Hunter Pony type, although I am not quite sure yet what sort of animal you are aiming for I am presuming it is performance rather than Halter orientated??
We have so many categories now I would need a guide dog to find my way round them.....Show Hunter Lead Rein Pony [i]and[/i]Working Hunter Lead Rein Pony [i]and[/i]Mountain and Moorland Hunter Lead Rein Pony!!!!!! All at one show....I am not sure I would know where to put an animal anymore.

My understanding of the rules over there is that if it is purebred it can not be denied papers and that that was an EU regulation, perhaps? Correct me if I am wrong. Or are you talking about stallions needing to be inspected? I would be in favor of that.

I'm actually confused about which ponies you are talking about since this conversation started at the Glenhaven site. Most of Suzanne's stallions are imported but she breeds hunter ponies as well as pure Welshes and most of the larges at her site are TB crosses from what I've seen (I'm not counting her Section D's of course as those are totally different).

Anyway, what you suggest is what I am doing. Well, sort of. (The British Show Pony is too fine for my liking.) I have my Welsh stallion and my proven hunter mares and 2/3 of the foals I've gotten from him are exactly what I want. I prefer the crosses to pure Welshes because the Welshes are not as naturally fit as TBs and Arabs and their work ethic isn't as good. I'm not saying they can't get there... you just have to work a little harder at it. :whip (so many uses for this whip smiley!!)

So what happens to the over height ponies over there Rabbit?

I am not sure, now, to be honest, as Sara says they have to be given papers, but I am not sure they have to be given breeding rights and they cannot be shown and there is absolutely no call for them, so they are never bred purposely.....
The site I went on says it is breeding Welsh Ponies up to 14.2hh, that is what started me off, I'm afraid :-@ \m/ :GTM
There is still stallion inspection, but, again, animals cannot be denied registration just because they have not been licensed, but their offspring do not have to go in the main body of the Stud Book, for example they have been told they have to accept "pinto" even though it is against the ethos of the Society so they are all put in a side register and again, cannot be shown.

Rabbit,

I know nothing about shetlands at all, can you post websites with pictures that show the difference between the American type and the Traditional British type? I'm intrigued now.

According to the American Shetland Pony Club, there are 4 types under the Shetland umbrella, the classic, the modern, American Show Pony and National Show Pony.
http://www.shetlandminiature.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure that RF will fill you in further but our Classic original Shetland is very hardy small and stout breed not like your showy leggy show pony type -

http://www.shetlandponystudbooksociety…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OK, AmShets are not Shetland Ponies, sorry.
They are a completely different, very beautiful breed.
This is a Shetland Pony:
[img]http://www.shetlandponyclassifieds.com/…]
[img]http://www.shetlandponyclassifieds.com/…]
[img]http://www.kellas-stud.co.uk/Colours/Ow…]

This is an AmShet
[img]http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:qf…]
[img]http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:Cl…]
[img]http://americanshetland.net/images/Buck…]
A very beautiful animal without doubt, but a hybrid of Shetland (I actually cannot find any Shetland blood in them at all, but I am reliably informed it is in there if you go back far enough!!) Hackney (loads and LOADS of Hackney,) and Welsh.
No TB which I would have put in were I to be breeding beautiful little ponies, and what our own Show Pony Society did, but there you go...NO idea why they call them Shetlands!

Huh, see, all the "shetlands" I've had contact with look like the real thing, I've never actually seen the fine boned, show type ponies before.

Maybe the ones I've seen are actually just really crappy show ponies who have gone coarse from bad breeding.

[quote="Jordie0587"]Huh, see, all the "shetlands" I've had contact with look like the real thing, I've never actually seen the fine boned, show type ponies before.

Maybe the ones I've seen are actually just really crappy show ponies who have gone coarse from bad breeding.[/quote]

Me too. But I strongly suspect your second paragraph is correct.

I suspect that is probably the case!!

Even those coarser american ones, I think that if you took a true british shetland and compared it you'd see the proportions are even quite different. Easier to see if they were both clipped out prehaps. The show presented US ones of course are all clipped up to look finer too. The American shetland really breed for a more horse type, where's true shetlands, are true ponies. The true shetlands ponies can still have the quality with the extra body depth, more bone etc.. The coarser American ones probably lack quality?

The shetland society of north america says they try to breed a more true island shetland type, but they don't much look like it to me. They all still have long legs.

The American ones are some very nice ponies, but as RZ says, not the same breed as the British shetland pony!!

We have both miniature ponies and minitature horses in Australia. The mini horses being the American bred ones, like scaled down American shetlands, and our minitature ponies are the minitature shetland type.