Blue Dun or Dunskin??

Definite grullo.

looks grullo to me too :)
and very cute too!!!

The mare does not look Black Dun to me she looks Silver, which means the foal could have Silver, it is hard to see on a Black Dun Base.
I can't see any minimal appy spots on the mare, maybe it is the picture??

Mare looks silver to me too,

hi guys, id say the mare is silver dapple with definately spots on her nose,and round her eyes

In the head shot she looks black silver to me too but in the first pic of her body and head she looks dun!!

She's both. She's definitely silver, but since the sire has no dun and the foal does, the mare also has dun.

The second to last picture shows snowflaking on the hip area, which is actually a more typical place for lacy blanket, but without full body shots of the mare from both sides and top, hard to say if that's what's going on with her.

Diane

I thought that was shavings.... :?:

Yes, it is shavings but I can see the mottling on her nose, now.

I was sent these pictures taken today of the mare and foal and you can clearly see the snowflakes on the mare.

[img]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/…]
[img]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/…]
[img]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/…]
[img]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/…]
[img]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/…]
[img]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/…]

[quote="accphotography"]I thought that was shavings.... :?:[/quote]

Bluddy he**, I think you're right...that's what I get for going thru' the photos fast...but, looking at the new photos of back, etc., I'd remove the "snowflake" description and just call her 'varnish roan'.

Diane

Although from the last picture she does have varnish markings on the rear, I would not call that snowflake though, minimal characteristics maybe.
How old is the mare??
The foal is definitely Black Dun, and of course should be tested for Silver.

Mare is 11yrs old so if she is a varnish then she shouldnt varnish out anymore or could she??

Can someone explain the difference between a snowflake and a varnish please. I am slowly coming to grips with the colours but the whole spotty thing is a whole other story :flower

It is a bit of a moot point, I don't actually think "snowflake" exists, per se, I do realise a few, a very few, animal do not fit into the varnish frame, but this mare, IMO, is varnish, and it does not have to be progressive, it is merely that it normally is.
At 11 I would not expect her to progress any further and I would not expect her to pass on full pattern, on her own, BUT she could there is always that BUT in there with Appies!! :laugh1

Thanks for that - so appies are a whole other ball game not to mention the miniature ones I suppose :lol:

I have a silver spotted grulla, pictured below, (tested) and she is nothing like this horses colour. I have looked up other silver grullas (the genetic ones lol) and they were as pale as my girl who is almost the colour of a young mushroom. I do think the foal is grulla, no silver, and the mare is obviously silver so does she have a dorsal stripe that makes you think she is dun? What about the spotted stallion? Is it possible the dates are "off" due to a late or early foal and if so, does he have any dun in his pedigree?

[img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/s…]

Snowflakes are usually small white 'spots' inside the dark coat pattern. They can (and do) disappear, reappear, move, change size, just to name a few things. They also can appear "grey" while forming. Varnish roan is a process by which the horse turns white, usually from the back forward, sometimes showing spots where the base coat used to be, and is progressive. Some progress faster than others, but about the only time I've seen it "stop" is once the horse turns all white (except for any spots that pop up, of course).

Diane

It's a foal coat so who knows. However I do agree I suspect the foal would be MUCH lighter if silver were also present.

Silver Grullos (Black Dun) do not always show Silver, it is similar to Buckskin, you can have a Buckskin that shows Silver wildly, bleaching the mane and tail as you would expect then you can have this chap
[img]http://www.ujenik.com/extasy1big.jpg[/i…]
Who is the sire of my stallion, Carlos, who is Silver Bay Pinto
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]

Now does that Buckskin show Silver??
No, neither do a lot of Silver Black Duns!

And of course your filly also has Appy which screws around with every colour it meets :rofl

slaneyrose you should put that picture on the "what colour is my horse" on a Mushroom topic, as you say yourself, my dna results are in and she's not mushroom :rofl

Well I've seen silver not express on cream bases, but I haven't seen it fail to express on dun bases. Anything's possible I guess, especially when LP and minis is concerned.

Unicorn your mare could still be mushroom.....

[quote]slaneyrose you should put that picture on the "what colour is my horse" on a Mushroom topic, as you say yourself, my dna results are in and she's not mushroom [/quote]

Emmmmm Joanne, I never said my mare was mushroom, I said she LOOKS the colour of mushroom and if you read the post again CAREFULLY :laugh1 you will see I dont need to ask what colour she is as she is already tested and is a silver grulla appy. :hammer :D

Jane, you are right about the appy messing with all colours, and Im not doubting you at all... but when I looked up genetic silver grulla (not just the ones given that name but are not genetically) generally speaking the silver made the body colour much paler, so its interesting for me to see carlos`s sire.

It seems to be mostly when there is cream present, but I do think Appy messes with the colour scheme as well.
Also of course, could your mare not have cream??

When I first looked at a black silver under the microscope I was devistated... color loaded to one side as dun does. Later told horse was from dun parents...But the pic of the horse only looked silver. So I reckon it can happen both ways.