Pensimon (sp) coat color in Gypsy Horses

No, I haven't. I'm very interested to find out though!

http://westhillranches.com/colts_7.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you can see his shaggy pics there....i did some digging cause I wanted to see! lol

lol yes, thats my boy King of the South. We just bought him and I wanted to find out more about his coloring....

looks like a bay with appy markings and a pinto marking of some sort...splash maybe?

looks like this is a full sibling: http://www.gogypsy.com/subpage.php?hors…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Color: Penn Simon
sounds like something they made up for a color name...

http://www.gogypsy.com/subpage.php?hors…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; another non-related that they are calling Penn Simon.

Yeah that's LP at work. Guess they just didn't want to call them "appaloosa Gypsies". :lol:

This is apparently the sire couldn't find a pic of the dam maybe one of you has had better luck?

http://www.colouredhorses.uciarea.de/in…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes I found Blue Bell, King's full sister. and the other penn Simon is actually Blue Bells 2009 filly Ringo. I contacted Meadow farm in the UK. they were the ones who bought my guy from Peter Ashe. She emailed me some photos of him as a foal with his dam. She looks to be solid white, pink around the eyes and muzzle.

Not convinced that is Lp.
Blagdon is Sabino, so Dam was a Chestnut Sabino.
I think the colt himself is a Bay Sabino.

Never heard of Pensimon, it may, possibly, be a "gypsy" term, but I would not count on it.
Many people, especially those with a vested interest in doing such things, make things up about "gypsy" horses that no-one here has ever heard about!!
Like them being "rare" and "famous" for a start!!!

I am in the process of finding out the history of the term. His breeder in the UK used it. and Tom Price when i spoke to him also used him and he is the number one traditional breeder and is a true romney gypsy himself. so I do believe is is a romney term. There are appy gypsies in the us and they are registered as such. As I get more information in I will post it straight from the sources :D

Here is another pic of king of the Souths dam...

Welcome Paintlover101 - your posts have now been approved so you can post away.

I agree with RabbitsFizz, the Dam is a Maximum Sabino and the foal and sire also have sabino - this is what looks to be causing his unusual colouring - although if you look in Clydesdales you will see this a LOT !

I have also never heard the term and do know some true Romany Gypsies ! - interesting term though.

I think if it looks like a duck... and ducks are known to exist... :D

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]Not convinced that is Lp.
Blagdon is Sabino, so Dam was a Chestnut Sabino.
I think the colt himself is a Bay Sabino.
[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing...our neighbour had a Welshie in for breeding a while back that was so roaned, she looked like she was a snowcap. My vote is sabino roan, heavy sabino roan, most likely bay in colour.

Diane

Just out of curiousity, could the name Penn Simon (as used on the websites) be the name of someone who's horses were known to carry this particular coat coloration, so the pattern was named after him?

Possibly the name of the woman who imported Appaloosas to breed to her Gypsies? :lol:

As far as I know. Its a term that has been used by the Gypsy's but peter Ashe seems to be the main breeder of the coat pattern. We are going to have King of the South color tested to see what he carries.

I was captivated by a colt's face: [u]The Masked Colt[/u]
I don't know if the image will come up, but he is at the bottom of the page about 3 under [u]King of the South[/u].
http://westhillranches.com/colts_7.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[img]http://westhillranches.com/images/NLMas…]

I think he'll test as Black with no modifiers.

I also think Sabino (which you can't reliably test for).

do you have a closeup picture of the colts eyes? I'd find it unusual for an only sabino horses thats not max to not have "eyeliner" and his look rather pinkish and mottley.

I'm still not seeing it...horse has sabino, splash...if there was appy there, I'd expect the muzzle and eyes to be mottled, not so clear-pink looking.

Diane

New photos taken of him yesterday....

There are other Appy marked colts in the breed, and I have not seem them called this color, though they are rare. But Gypsies do carry SB1, so it could certainly be a factor.

I talked to Tom price today. He said that both of KOS's parents were Sabino's. his dam is a max sabino, nearly all white but with blue flaking near her back legs. neither of his parents have the mloting near their eyes that KOS has, and neither does Blue bell or Ringo. Accoriding to him, Kos should only throw roan foals, if bred with a chestnut we will get a strawberry roan, ect. he says it is a gypsy term used for these roans and that the appaloosa horses in the breed are just called spotted but he went to say that in the US we have so many terms for everything that who knows what to classify odd coloured horses as :D He was reather funny through the whole conversation lol

Well who knows what's under roan that heavy. Interesting about the lack of mottling though. I have seen it happen though (on apps).

On the topic of roan - I have always thought that classic roan is dominant and it cannot hide - and I also think of it as an almost totally whitened boy with dark points like Swinghorse's lovely looking stud she posted. My friends Paso Fino Mare looks like she is rabicano / sabino roaned with white flecks in her coat but not a lot more but has produced a roan foal that can only be said looks like a classic from a Black Sire - so does classic hide and can it have a minimal form - I didn't think you ever saw it in a minimal form, that sort of roaning was always caused by sabino, rabicano and LP. I know that PFs have a rabicano line which is what I assumed her to be but this is not normal. If she will allow me I will post pictures....ideas? :?

lipigirl: this stallion is just up the road from me...my boyfriends cousins own him
http://vangundystables.tripod.com/id2.h…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

he is true roan....but doesn't look it unless you get up real close in person and know where you are looking for those white hairs. He has sired true roan foals out of mares that are not roan and do not have roan backgrounds.

Roan is definitely dominant and doesn't hide. However it CAN be SHOCKINGLY minimal.

This guy is definitely classic roan:
http://www.hancockhorses.com/pcbronsin_…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As is this one (who is slightly more obvious):
http://www.horse-genetics.com/images/Ye…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this one (a son of the first one)... it's a small slideshow so wait for the other pics:
http://vangundystables.tripod.com/siteb…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I dont know whether is appy or some kind of vitiligo or something and though he definitly IS Sabino I just cannot see those eye markings as coming from that alone. Sabino would leave the eyelids the LAST to go, I have never seen it do anything like that...

[quote="accphotography"]Well who knows what's under roan that heavy. Interesting about the lack of mottling though. I have seen it happen though (on apps).[/quote]

But not often...btw, I'm now on the fence, thinking that when the LP test is available, might be worth having it done, if this boy's staying intact.

Diane

Well I assume this girl is classic roan then and that there [b]is[/b] true roan in PFs which is strange because it is supposed to be Rabicano and most cases I have seen it IS rabicano, must have snuck in there at some point.

I have seen eye markings like that before in a Mini gelding who was a Max sabino - looked so much like LP but was def Sabino.

I've seen several roan paso finos...*hunts*

http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Profile…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; blue roan
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-216672" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; bay roan

a friend of the family used to have a chestnut roan gelding that was a PF