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Pattern poser, all ideas welcome!

rabbitsfizz February 24, 2011 February 24, 2011

Forums

OK, dam is solid Silver Black, by a Silver Black (solid) O/O a Black Roan (absolutely NO Appy breeding anywhere.) Sire is Silver Bay and White Tobiano + Splash and Sabino (I think) Foal is Silver Bay base Blanket Appy, loudly marked I have NO idea how to put pictures up on this copulating Forum (sorry Daylene) but there are pictures of all animals on my website, sire is Carlos, dam is Willow and foal is Lacey. I have just had the DNA results back!

accphotography Thu, 02/24/2011 - 13:51

Yeah I'm going to need to see the pics on this one because I can't figure them out on your website. Something isn't listed right.

rabbitsfizz Thu, 02/24/2011 - 14:28

[img]http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/C…]
confirmed sire, Carlos
[img]http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/w…]
known dam, Willow
[img]http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/w…]
foal, Lacey Silver Bay base.

WHY does it keep asking me to verify a code before I can post???
UGH, where's my blankie...oh...it's still over me head!

Whilst we are at it, why "has confirmed sire Carlos known " appeared at the top of the post?

*this is Jane, speaking to you from beneath her blankie, and totally without any ability to change the size or colour of her test...or to spellcheck........*

Oh, and that is winter coat on Carlos' flank, not any sort of spots whatsoever.....

accphotography Thu, 02/24/2011 - 16:05

I would ave been just a wee bit surprised. LOL! I would have thought D.C got her instead. ROFL

Curious... have you checked both parents in detail for ANY sign of LP?

Daylene Alford Thu, 02/24/2011 - 16:15

[quote]Whilst we are at it, why "has confirmed sire Carlos known " appeared at the top of the post?[/quote]

If you don't enter anything in the subject it will take it from the first part of your post.

Monsterpony Thu, 02/24/2011 - 19:19

Hmmm...I would guess the poser is Carlos given that his coat and patterns would allow for more hiding of appy pattern.

critterkeeper Thu, 02/24/2011 - 22:01

I am not going to hazard a guess on who the poser is, but I can see that little pumpkin has tons of Appy characteristics oozing from every pore....what a sweetie.

rabbitsfizz Fri, 02/25/2011 - 11:23

Carlos is by Little Kings Double Extasy - Silver Buckskin NO Appy- O/O TH Ekalatina Falabella Red and White- I have seen the sire and dam, there is just a very very outside chance that Ekalatina could have been hiding Varnish in her Sabino, but she showed no signs on the face.
I tested DC alongside Carlos- of course I expected DC to come back as the sire- this result has floored me!
Mind you DC was 29". A yearling. (mare is 37") DC was clipped and in a stall. He was never in a field next to Willow, anyway. Willow ran with Carlos all that summer.
Even so, I did, of course, test DC.
NOT the daddy......

Whoopee I have spellcheck again.
The forum is all over the place, though, really really weird.

RiddleMeThis Fri, 02/25/2011 - 20:07

I don't mean this in a negative way, but did you send the hairs in yourself or where they already on file? If you sent them in yourself, any chance you mislabeled the hairs and sent DCs hairs in as Carlos' hairs and vice versa?

rabbitsfizz Sat, 02/26/2011 - 02:45

OK, the Forum just ate my reply as well.......
This tire me out, I often just cannot be bothered to post agian, but here goes!

I understand completely what you are saying RMT and it would be my first question too.
I took the samples myself, they were separately bagged and I wore disposable gloves.
To the best of my knowledge, allowing that anything is possible, they were correct.
I intend to have Carlos' results redone by Animal Genetics, and at the same time I shall have him Lp tested. I shall then have his results run by the company that did these tests to make sure all is correct.
If Carlos has Lp that does not explain where a fully spotted foal came from, does it?
The mare has nothing to add to the mix, there is NO Appy, anywhere in her pedigree.

RiddleMeThis Sat, 02/26/2011 - 02:55

Well the mare could contain PATN as it doesn't show without LP and without LP it could hide for generations and generations. Theres no knowing how long ago or what breeds hold PATN. Its completely possible that even Arabs contain PATN that is just never seen. So if Carlos does have LP the mare could easily have a "hidden" PATN and then out pops loud foal.

accphotography Sat, 02/26/2011 - 03:00

We have now seen two solid BARELY characteristic mares produce fully spotted offspring from stallions with "no" app breeding, one an Arab and one a Warmblood. Not saying it's proof, but it's a fully marked foal from two entirely unmarked parents.

I think your plan of action sounds like a good one. Wish there was a PATN test.

rabbitsfizz Sat, 02/26/2011 - 14:10

I have to say I do not understand this PATN thing.
I know of a mare, characteristiced in minimal- some frosting on her rear that is all, but she had a full blanket dam, we do know that, bred to a Shetland Shetland (NO Appy, none, ever. The closest relative is the Icelandic - we think. No Appy, no spots nothing Nada, zilch) and she presented us with a fully spotted, banging a drum loud, foal.
So...I am thinking there is more to it than just PATN/NO PATN or PATN + Lp = spotted foal......
Either way, I shall get this sorted as I am perplexed and, as I said, I do not like the idea of selling a foal that has the wrong pedigree or even [i] might [/i] have the wrong pedigree!

Hey What The Sat, 02/26/2011 - 16:39

I find it fascinating that the appy thing can hide so well for so long. It really makes you wonder what other genes can and do exactly the same thing.

rabbitsfizz Sun, 02/27/2011 - 06:51

Willow, the dam, (I had a brain blip on this one, so many apologies on that) is by a Silver Black, who is, in turn, by a Leopard.
Is it then possible that the dam - Willow- is supplying Lp- she has NO characteristics, none, she is a solid Silver Black, honestly, I would have noticed by now she is four years old!

AppyLady Sun, 02/27/2011 - 08:27

Minis have an amazing ability to suppress LP, especially if they're black and female. That must be where it's coming from. Cute baby!

critterkeeper Sun, 02/27/2011 - 11:10

Well, we have always heard that you may have to hunt for signs of mottling on some horses - internally if necessary...(not a search most of us make)