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Ok, I have another one for you...

Hey What The March 28, 2010 February 22, 2011

Forums

What patterns am I? I'm told I'm tovero but is that all? I have 2 dark blue eyes.

accphotography Sun, 03/28/2010 - 22:17

Well "tovero" is "accurate" according to breed registries. A "tovero" is a horse displaying both traits of "tobiano" and "overo". It's a semi-ok phenotype descriptor, it's a LOUSY genotype descriptor.

This horse is definitely tobiano and splash. Sabino is likely but I don't necessarily see evidence. Frame is possible, but also don't really see evidence of it. Everything is screaming splash/tobi.

Hey What The Sun, 03/28/2010 - 22:56

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand how his markings indicate which gene is at work. Ummm kinda hard to explain what I mean... Is it to do with the shape, pattern or placement of colour or white?

accphotography Sun, 03/28/2010 - 23:14

That makes sense. That much white over the topline coupled with colored chest and flank shields = tobiano. Bald faces and bald heads nearly always indicate splash. White ON the ears themselves ALWAYS indicates splash IMO. Sabino just because most horses have it (though some will argue the roaniness of the colored spots says frame) and frame just because it can hide in anything (and the colored spots are a bit jagged so some might consider that a possible frame trait).

Maigray Sun, 03/28/2010 - 23:17

I see the distribution of white. The white pattern slid over the legs, was "detained" on the underside and at the head of the horse and skipped over to completely dominate the topline.

There is color on the chest and flank and that is very characteristic of the tobiano pattern.

The almost pure white head with blue eyes is very indicative of splash, which also likes to stop - exactly - right above the eyes and encircle the face, leaving the ears and top of the head colored. The line is usually precise, exactly as if the head had been dipped in white paint.

To cross that dividing line, I look to other patterns being present. In this horse, all that is left of that line is the patch right under the forelock. Combined with the roaning and "messy" edges of some of the other markings, I traditionally think sabino patterning.

Splash also does not like to leave mouth patches. It likes to swallow the entire muzzle. Sabino type patterning often seems to produce the effect of patches of color at the mouth and it also seems to be cross onto the top of the head with the most ease.

In sum - chest and flank shields and color up to throat and I think tobiano; blue eyes, white head, and long sweeping horizontal swathes of color = splash; messy, roany edging, white on top of the head, mouth patches and leftover color on the forehead I equate with sabino.

Hey What The Mon, 03/29/2010 - 00:08

Thanks so much for that indepth analasys (sp?), you both explained it very succinctly. Not sure if you can tell in the pics or not but he also has black on the insides of his ears. Would that be as a result of sabino? or something else?

NZ Appaloosas Mon, 03/29/2010 - 00:39

One of the best things you can do for yourself in learning paint patterns is to throw out everything you have stored in your memory banks regarding "overo" and "tovero"--they don't exist in genetics, only in APHA (and those who 'learned' from APHA).

There are three "overo" patterns...splash, frame (also known as Overo Lethal White Syndrome) and sabino. There is one "not overo" pattern...tobiano
There is no "tovero" pattern, just a combination of two or more of the above patterns.

Once you got that down as a foundation, you'll start picking up the "signatures" the individual patterns have, and then how they look when combined with one or more of the other patterns.

This might be the right time to post some photos I have from a show this summer, which will be a game of guessing what pattern the horse does NOT have! :booty :rofl

Diane

accphotography Mon, 03/29/2010 - 00:39

The black on the inside of the ears was always there. It's just that whatever white pattern took off part of the black didn't take all of it. :)

I will respectfully disagree with Maigray that splash won't cause a mustache or white on the ears. I feel both of those are splash traits, she feels both are sabino traits.

Hey What The Mon, 03/29/2010 - 01:31

Things are definitely getting clearer but I think it is going to take me ages to not so much see what is there but perhaps try and see more of what isn't there. Meaning where the white starts and stops rather than try to figure out where the base colour should be. Does that make sense in a very confused kinda way lol??

rabbitsfizz Mon, 03/29/2010 - 15:22

I see the "shields" as indicative of Sabino, especially when on a mostly white horse like this.
This is old "learning" btw, from around twenty years ago, but I have always accepted it and found it to make sense, so, it is learned information, backed up by experience.
It was one of the first things I learned when first I came upon such terms as "Warbonnet" and "Medicine Hat" which, being a trifle lacking in the Native American area, in firstly Essex and now Hertfordshire (but not Hereford or Hampshire, where Hurricanes Hardly Happen :rofl ) I had not come across before.

Maigray Mon, 03/29/2010 - 23:39

Well, 3 different opinions, and you can tell this is a very subjective thing! The best way to learn about the patterns is to look at them over and over again until you get a "feel" for how they work. In a horse with this much white, it's a good guess.

Sara Tue, 03/30/2010 - 10:50

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]It was one of the first things I learned when first I came upon such terms as "Warbonnet" and "Medicine Hat" which, being a trifle lacking in the Native American area, in firstly Essex and now Hertfordshire (but not Hereford or Hampshire, where Hurricanes Hardly Happen :rofl ) I had not come across before.[/quote]

Cracking yourself up again, Rabbit? :lol: