JOHN COFFEE HAYES

If hes bred to a chestnut he COULD, but not necessarily WOULD, produce bay. If the chestnut is aa then your only choice (with this stallion) is black. If the chestnut is Aa then your choices (with this stallion) are bay and black. If the chestnut is AA then your choices (with this stallion) are bay and bay. LOL

I was thinking with Annie and she is red dun, but I thought if a horse was red it could only produce red and with HZ black it would produce bay, or with her, bay or bay dun.....I don't get the whole agouti thing yet, I didn't have her tested because I thought red was just red, what you see is what you get.....no?

Ok ok ok...... *-:) I get it now, I called Animal genetics and am getting Annie tested for Agouti...lol!

If she is (aa) :ympray: I am so breeding her to a (aa) blue roan that means she would have a blue roan, grulla or a blue roan grulla splash/sabino or splash or sabino, that is awesome!!! win win win win.

This is Sunny who is Homozygous for Bay (parents were Silver Bay and Buckskin) He also carries silver so you do need to test to see if they carry it.
[img]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/…]

Annie is just gorgeous as I said :love - cant wait to see what kind of baby she has. Stallion is a nice looking boy.

Thanks again :flower , I am just window shopping right now she's only 4 coming 5 in Feb so I have plenty of time. See the thing is, is that when I joined this forum I was mainly wanting to learn about white patterns because I own paints. I am still having to re-learn about these things like this Agouti because old school teaching was if you have a red horse and breed it to a black horse unless the black horse carries red you get bay %100 of the time. I didn't understand that agouti (bay) could hide being that I was taught that it was dominant and if is present that you would see it. Knowing if Annie is (aa) or (Aa) would greatly influence my decision on what color of horse to breed her to, blue roan and grulla are my favorite colors, although conformation and breeding is always more important, but the stallion above has all of the above and the Hancock horses also have a reputation of staying sound. I have a friend that has a hancock bred gelding that is 26 and she still rides him on 17 mile poker rides :shock: .
I had Annie tested for pearl because she is BRLNK bred but she was negative for that, I don't think silver is a possibility.

Keep in mind you could still get a chestnut or red roan if the stallion is not homozygous black (this guy is though).

Right I would only go for HZ black if I bred to a roan.

That's good because some people hope to get a blue roan using a heterozygous black roan when there is a 7% or less chance of it. :rofl

My Final Notice is one of those horses. People breed chestnuts to him and hope for blue roan... VERY rarely get them too. LOL

Yeah I did the coat caculator on animal genetics and I saw that, but also saw that with Annie there was a really good chance and getting Grulla if she is (aa) and I like black as well esspecially if Annie splashed it up, why is the chance so small to get the roan? It actually came out like 12% on animal genetics calculator.

[quote="accphotography"]That's good because some people hope to get a blue roan using a heterozygous black roan when there is a 7% or less chance of it. :rofl

My Final Notice is one of those horses. People breed chestnuts to him and hope for blue roan... VERY rarely get them too. LOL[/quote]
is his roan red linked?

Yup!! Dam was a red roan and sire a black.

Yeah, I had a client that insisted on using My Final Notice to breed to their mare even though they'd been offered a free breeding to a very nice red roan stud. I could not convince them that their chance for blue roan were almost exactly the same.

:-D
I really wouldnt worry about her agouti status myself bay roans are purty and purple! :lol: Grulla roans are cool though, silvery. Although about the splash/sabino is it just me or are all the Hancock blue roans pretty sockless and solid?

For some reason they intentionally bred against white with the Hancock roans.

If she had a grulla or a blue roan I wouldn't care if the foal had any white or not, with black it would be nice. So why is the chance of getting a roan so low?
I do like bay roans but I love blue roans.

well, the chance of a roan is 50/50 the problems come in with whether it will be black or red.
Roan and Extension (black/red factor) are linked so that they are passed on together. Like instead of flipping two coins, one for black and one for roan, you flip one coin with black-roan on one side and red-solid on the other (or red-roan and black-solid, or in the case of a homozygous black roan black-roan and black-solid). If a heterozygous blue roan has a red roan parent it's almost certain that his roan is "red linked" meaning just about every time he passes on his roan, he sends the red with it instead of the black, so he'd make a bunch of black non-roan foals and red roan foals (unless the dam contributed a black).
Things get reeeaaly fun when you add Tobiano to the mix, which is also extension linked. So you end up with a blue roan stallion throwing chestnut tobianos and blue roans. (I dont think we've yet found a horse that will pass on both tobano and roan to the same foal. :sad: )

So homozygous black(EEaa) roan stallion x red dun (eeaa) should give you 50% chance roan, 50% chance dun, 100% chance black base, so 25% chance each of: grulla roan, black roan, grulla, and black.
If the mare is Aa half will be bay based instead and if she's AA they will all be. (what color are her sire and dam?)

Is Roan always linked to colour?
It is the same with Tobiano, isn't it?

Yes and yes.

I wouldn't say so much that its linked to color but both roan and tobiano are linked to extension (E or e).

She's (aa) :bounce :HB
Her sire is red dun and her dam chestnut.... http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bdb+fas…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (parent pics on there)
I did not get until I posted the original question that she would produce anything but bay based bred to a HZ black based horse. I am really happy right now, she is red dun (aa) so now that totally helps me in shopping for a stallion.....because that means that if I bred her to a HZ blk(aa) HZ dun Grulla, I would get Grulla right?? and possibly HZ dun.

Yes

My choices aren't bad with that EE aa blue roan either, a splash blue roan or grulla would be :drool

Drool worthy? Absolutely ^_^

:YMSMUG: yep