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all that sass
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flat feet
ok, you hoof people! new mares feet are horrendous! (going to try and get pics) One front is clubby but the rest look ok form the outside :) all 4 feet are perfectly flat! my vet didn't seem to think chronic founder caused it because of the lack of lines on ehr hoof wall, but i have NEVER seen hooves this flat. they are not pie shaped and overall shape and size is acceptable to me (except for the clubby one) but there is absolutely NO concavity. they were trimmed less then 2 weeks ago (so i am told, and i can believe it because i can still see rasp marks) so, what do you do for flat feet? i am going to hazard a guess that i can't keep her barefoot without some MAJOR stone bruising and absessing. the farrier is coming out on friday because there is no way i am touching them. this is way over my head!
accphotography
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Re: flat feet

Some flat footed horses do fine without shoes.

How do her heels look from underneath? Underrun at all?

Can you tell if there's any chance she has impacted soles? I would bet that's your culprit. Otherwise an overall poor trim can lead to flat feet even if it's just subtle thing (slight flaring, slight underrun heels, etc.).

Photos would be a huge help.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Morgan
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Re: flat feet

pictures will help because depending on what kind of "flat" it is you need to watch different areas.

1 type that people can see as flat is if there is a bunch of solid sole filling in the center of the foot, that would need a little cleaning out.

another is where the sole around the rim has been rasped and is too thin, that just takes a bit to grow it out again and dont touch it for a month or so.

the third (and the most anoying imo) is where the center sole has actually dropped down. causes of this can be laminitis (of any level from severe to just mild tenderness on rough ground) or more commonly an overgrown foot of the flaring type. To fix it up keep the wall short (I don't recomend longer than 4-5 weeks between trim on most horses like this, if you can handle a rasp yourself, you can tought the wall and roll up on a weekly basis for even better result) farrier should roll any flared areas and keep the horse on yielding ground if you can (sand is best, pasture will work). I'm expecting this is what you have because of the neglect and the breed. (for some reason TBs and TB types are prone to what I call "splat" hooves when they overgrow).

I'm trimming one like this right now, she was flat with flares and splits from getting overgrown, I actually got her passed to me by another trimmer who couldn't make it to this area any more, when she started the sole was convex and the walls were bad flared, I got it when she had been able to work the sole to flat, most of the flare was out and just half an inch or so of splits. At the second trim I did she had maybe 1/8th inch concavity and the splits are near gone. That's just by regular 5 week trimming of the wall, the horses is even fat, living in a damp pasture and steals grain from the cows and still improving :lol: but she is moving all day ;) The other trimmer and I don't even use the same method but on this hoof I think we did, cause there was nothing to it but trim the wall down and roll it.

also about shoes and flat foot:
shoes only protect the rim of the foot and lift the sole slightly (unless you use a pad, which makes stuff underneath kind of soft and rotty, imo: bleh), which can help make them seem comfortable short term but I must warn you, in the thrid scenario above the shoe feels to the hoof just as a somewhat longer wall would and the sole may continue to drop, and most probably won't improve without some sort of expensive corrective shoeing, the which you can get the same effect (maybe faster) by letting the ground suport the hoof and keeping the wall short (very short, to the sole level). You may have to live through a few bruises but it will correct faster barefoot if done right. Movement is a big key in sole health so i think as she gets in better overall shape it will start to improve.
A horse sound only in shoes is not really sound at all, I kind of throw shoeing in the same category as baling twine :rofl Might hold it together if you absolutly need to use the horse right then but you better actually fix the problem or you gonne need a heap more twine as time goes on.

all that sass
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Re: flat feet

hmmm, interesting info from both of you! from my view her heels actually look good, she has no flares or any feet, though her white line at her toe is not smooth and round as it should be, its very uhmm wavy. I say her heel looks fine because it actually looks like she has concavity at her heels i mean it looks like her sole is overgrown ...like a false sole...except i have never seen one sooo flat with the look of live sole! i can keep her wall cleaned up and probably get her white line tight again in a year or so, but i would really hate for her to get sore right now while we are trying to make her comfortable. i am 1/2 considering soaking her feet every day to see if it will soften up the sole and make it come off.....

all that sass
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Re: flat feet

the flies were bugging her and she was tired form being out almost 2 hours, so i only got one foot (the front non-club foot) its too dark in the barn to get pics, so i will try to get a couple more tomorrow when she first goes out and has a bit more energy for standing on 3 legs.

all that sass
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Re: flat feet

last one

Morgan
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Re: flat feet

oh! thats not bad at all, yeah thats compacted sole, not dropped. but its compected in the center, the rim apears to have been trimmed down. Farrier without knife syndrome :lol: see how the frog is in a cayon? true flat foot that would be very open.
Bars need trimming, I recommend you get one of these: http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
just seach for "carver's rasp" they're about $10 and you can use it to lightly shape the sole and bars, safer than A knife and easier than learning to use one 9especially on compacted sole) You would need to trim the bars quite a bit and rasp lightly the sole around the tip of the frog so the foot is a shallow bowl.

i am 1/2 considering soaking her feet every day to see if it will soften up the sole and make it come off.....

I wouldn't in this case, see how the foot is already wet when you picked it up? that's doing enough and any more can cause rot. Frog needs a little cleaning.

btw there is flaring, anywhere the wall is not straight is a flare.

lipigirl
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Re: flat feet

Thats not really flat, my ex TB steeplechaser had very wide flat feet something that seems to come with racing which is why I thought yours would be the same - I think those will be fine in time, which is great because otherwise they can lose shoes in no time!

Anyone know why so many racehorses have flat feet ?

accphotography
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Re: flat feet

Maybe because of the way their feet are handled on the track. Some of the worst feet I've ever seen (outside of rescues with no care) in my life have been on the racetrack... and under top trainers too.

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Morgan
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Re: flat feet

Anyone know why so many racehorses have flat feet ?

probably a number of things combined. shoeing the rim of the foot reduces suport in the center, stalling as much as they do means they aren't getting all the steps in yielding ground that the sole needs. And stress can weaken the hoof as well (and if any horses is stressed....)

all that sass
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Re: flat feet

i am not about to touch them with a knife or otherwise. I'll let my farrier play with her feet.

Is it not possible that if she had foundered at some point that could be live tissue or pretty close to it?

in my mind, its not really a flare if you cant put your finger in it hahahahaha. those itty bitty non flare flares are not that hard to clean up lmao

slaneyrose
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Re: flat feet

I cant see the pics, can everyone else? :bounce

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