The Colors of Life

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DARK SKINNED cremello?!

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notrbl2
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Younger Halo

Younger Halo

notrbl2
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younger Halo 2

younger Halo 2

notrbl2
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young halo 3

young halo 3

notrbl2
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young halo 4

young halo 4

Daylene Alford
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I have been in contact with

I have been in contact with the owner and she has graciously agreed to retest him. She will be pulling hair tonight and sending them in the morning. They will be going to UC Davis.

He does look more like a cremello in these younger photos, although in photo number 2 you can still see darker skin around the mouth as compared to his nose.

Threnody
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Regardless of the results I'm

Regardless of the results I'm excited. This guy is fascinating.

Heather
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That is awesome!

That is awesome!

notrbl2
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critterkeeper wrote:I do know

I do know that cremellos do have a tendency to darken when exposed to the sun 24/7, but from my personal experience it doesn't turn as dark as the OPs example. I know Luna's eyelids are more of a dark tan during the summer and he also gets "freckles" around his muzzle, but by mid-winter his skin is back to dazzling pink... :grin:

Halo is out nearly 24/7 and around his eyes the skin IS freckled, it's just really hard to see in a picture. And, instead of the skin being pink, it does look tan with the darker freckles. I'll have to note this winter if it returns to a lighter pink.

Third Peppermint
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This is awesome! Thank you

This is awesome! Thank you for joining and being willing to share more information. I'd say the younger pictures are more "cremello-y" than the older ones. Maybe he's liver cremello?

notrbl2
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Third Peppermint wrote:This

This is awesome! Thank you for joining and being willing to share more information. I'd say the younger pictures are more "cremello-y" than the older ones. Maybe he's liver cremello?

The only thing I can think of is that he is somehow getting the dark color from his dam... if you look at her pics earlier in this thread, she is a VERY dark dunalino...
And, as eveident by his cremello filly this year (that was the same color gold as Halo), perhaps that is passed down?

I will, if I can, get some close up shots of the skin around his muzzle/eyes. It is not black, it's freckled... it's just very difficult to get photos of.

notrbl2
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Pics of Halo's eye and

Pics of Halo's eye and muzzle, as close as I could get and have them still be somewhat clear.

Daylene Alford
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Those are good pics, very

Those are good pics, very interesting. What color are his eyes? In the first pic they look almost green. Is that just the pic?

What does the skin under his tail look like? Is it freckled or is it actually pink? The reason I ask is that the skin under his tail wouldn't have been exposed to as much sunlight.

notrbl2
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I'd say they are blueish

I'd say they are blueish green... They are not blue like an overo's blue eyes (and I've had LOTS of those on my place caused by the overo gene on my other stallion). More green than that, but not a true "green". They are definitely more blue than my perlino mare's eyes.
Clear as mud? :-?

Daylene Alford
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Opps I was editing as you

Opps I was editing as you were posting :rofl

notrbl2
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I know what I think the skin

I know what I think the skin under his tail is, but I'll verify tomorrow and post on that tomorrow evening. Don't want to post and then be wrong (I have 18 horses, I've "mixed up" details before wheN I spoke to quickly).

Monsterpony
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The double dilute eyes I have

The double dilute eyes I have seen are usually more greenish-blue rather than the ice blue that you get with white patterns.

.

JNFerrigno
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When you think of sooty and

When you think of sooty and double creams, what is the image that comes to your head?

I didn't think about it till I saw the sooty palomino foal of his. But as I understood sooty on chestnut, or what we understand for sooty, progresses from the horses points and up towards the center of the body. Like what we see in the foal. If sooty is behaving this way on the stallion in question, could explain his lower legs being so deep. I have photos some where of a draft horse, not sure if he was palomino or a flaxen chestnut, but his knees and down the front of his cannon was black, or like a burnt mahogany wood color if you want to be artistically correct lol.

lipigirl
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Sounds like Halo has a

Sounds like Halo has a sunkissed look to his skin in the summer. He is facinating and sooty is a def possibility as to why this is all happening to him.

Can't wait for more info. :bounce

Heather
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He will be a good one to

He will be a good one to learn from.

notrbl2
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JNFerrigno wrote:When you

When you think of sooty and double creams, what is the image that comes to your head?

I didn't think about it till I saw the sooty palomino foal of his. But as I understood sooty on chestnut, or what we understand for sooty, progresses from the horses points and up towards the center of the body. Like what we see in the foal. If sooty is behaving this way on the stallion in question, could explain his lower legs being so deep. I have photos some where of a draft horse, not sure if he was palomino or a flaxen chestnut, but his knees and down the front of his cannon was black, or like a burnt mahogany wood color if you want to be artistically correct lol.

Someone asked me about this yesterday, or about "chocolate" as I don't know if there is a lot known about what causes the chocolate coloring in palominos either.
I do not know a lot abotu "Sooty" or "chocolate" so I can not comment on those until I do more research. If anyone knows about them, please feel free to share as I'd love to learn something new as well.

I will say that Halo is not quite that deep in person/in pasture condition. But when you bathe him (and I used a great horse shampoo by Extreme Design) he is nearly metallic, and the reflection is where some of the gold coloring is coming from. He is a darker than normal cremello even in person, as you can see very clearly his facial and leg markings.

I originally tested him for dun thinking that if he had the dun gene then THAT might explain the darker legs although he had no visible barring/dorsal stripe (which I tried to attribute to the dilution from the cream genes). But, alas, he did test NEGATIVE for dun.

notrbl2
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These aren't great pics, but

These aren't great pics, but I think they show taht there is also freckling (not as much as the head) under the tail, around the rectal area, and on the sheath/testicles.

Now, in looking at the 1 pic, I want to go back out and look more closely at hte skin on hte inside of his LEGS b/c it looks relatively pink in this pic. The freckles are something I've always seen, but havne't paid a lot of attention to.

JNFerrigno
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As long as the horse isn't

As long as the horse isn't Silver, Chocolate is usually paired with Palomino, making it a Chocolate Palomino, which most often is used to describe a Sooty Palomino like that half-arab foal he had.

I've not personally bred for palominos. While I did work with a Palomino Appaloosa stud, breeding for the right shade of show quality Palomino is tricky business. However from what I have read, most programs bred Cremello to Chestnut, and Chestnut mares with no smut to them (a clear bright cheery red) were most desirable. It was thought that these bright red mares produced bright gold palominos with clear white manes and tails. And if your horse happen to also have some nice chrome on them, you'd have the 'ideal' color for a palomino breeder.

However I believe this was the practice in the early 90's, with what is known of color, and both partners contributions, I do not know if this is still considered the normal practice.

Ah, sorry for rambeling, It happens LOL. It's how I kinda figure things out. But the point was that maybe Pepto came from lines that were darker then normal. All other colors have shade varriance, why not Cremellos as well.

What I do find really interesting is the speckling under his tail and testicles. That is something I've not seen on cremellos before. Very interesting.

Daylene Alford
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I received the test results

I received the test results today and he is indeed CrCr. I would like to thank his owners again for allowing him to be retested.

notrbl2
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He's a great stallion, just

:-?
He's a great stallion, just unusually colored.
I know he's one that has been argued over on many forums, so I don't mind at all to have someone retest him.
I enjoy learning new things, so if anyone has any explanation for his dark coloring and the numerous freckles (even under the tail, scrotum, etc) I'd love to hear any suggestions.
The only thing I've been able to come up with is that his dam's line carries some kind of modifier that darkens the coat as his dam was a VERY dark dunaline and Halo is a DARK cremello and his 1st cremello filly was also very dark, like Halo.
He is a special guy, in attitude and in coloring!

Threnody
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Very very neat, thanks so

Very very neat, thanks so much for indulging our curiosity!

Monsterpony
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Very cool! It is so odd to

Very cool! It is so odd to find that dark of skin, but it could be related to the darkness his line. Cougarand San Bar is a very dark champagne that doesn't even have the flaxen colored mane you get with gold champs so there is something darkening him up. I wonder if there are any double dilute morgans that have this dark of skin considering that they are the poster children for extreme dark coats.

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TheSwingHorse
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Speaking of dark DD (he does

Speaking of dark DD (he does have pink skin, coat is just SUPER dark!)...

Scroll down to Desert Jewel Golden Shimmer.
http://www.djwwgypsyhorses.com/2011Foals...

He is supposed to be a Smokey Cream. He looks super dark! Then again, I don't see many Smokey Cream foals... lol

IMAGE(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv28/hoodsey_stock/Pecunia-%20Grey%20Andalusian%20Mare/DSC_0059-1.jpg)

notrbl2
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Just thought i'd add his

Just thought i'd add his testing also came back negative for agouti.

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