Brown and Bay again

Ok since I'm not sure why that one isn't working, try this version
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would love to see photos of chestnuts or palominos that have tested positive for At. I know its not supposed to make a difference but I would still like to see photos if anyone knows of any.

Thanks for that, worked perfectly. LOL, they all looked brown to me, so I wouldn't find it out of the ordinary that they test brown. I would though if the bay mare in the bottom right had.

I can see the brown test might be useful in animals with broken colour/white legs, where you can't see the over all body colour distribution.

Here are two brown foals from last season, both looked bay with light legs.
Both now very dark brown all over, with paler muzzles.

[attachment=0]DSC_5052.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1]DSC_4889.jpg[/attachment]

Admin, my chestnut mare in the post above, must carry At, because she produced a brown foal to my homozygous black stallion. She is by a bay out of a brown.
I don't think she looks any different.

Here is a pic with a bit more of her in it.
[attachment=0]DSC_6157-1.jpg[/attachment]

Thanks for posting thorwood. I should have been more specific. Since A is supposed to be dominate to At I would like to see horses that are Ata.

Ah, OK. She hasn't been tested, but going by the theory, if I have it right, she must carry At as both of her foals by black stallions have been brown, so I am assuming they are Ee Ata.

[quote="RiddleMeThis"]Heres a collection of photos with At horses that have been tested
http://www.tdmequinedesign.com/Expressi…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]

They are more what I thought brown to be, interesting too that they don't have light muzzles. None of them look really bay. It's the sooty looking or darker bays that people are calling browns that confuse me!

So wait, do only Ata horses have the lighter areas on the flanks and muzzle and the AtAt horses look like weird dark bays?

Sorry I am now even more confused.
ACC you said they have not identified A....but they[i]have[/i] identified At?? How come, surely At and A are pretty close?

Thorwood, please will you adopt me?
I am small and do not eat much and am still able to muck out , baby sit and train form the ground. I am a qualified teacher, I work for food!

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]Sorry I am now even more confused.
ACC you said they have not identified A....but they[i]have[/i] identified At?? How come, surely At and A are pretty close?
[/quote]

Yup and yup!! They HAVE found 'At'. No one has found 'A'. No one has an explanation. Apparently the agouti locus is pretty complicated. Remember the French found NOTHING on it which means they had to miss at least two mutation alleles. Pearl is very close to cream but they didn't find it when they found cream. Really, they have to be looking for it to find it and quite frankly, I really don't believe anyone is looking for 'A' because until now the 'a' test has proven sufficient.

The impression I got ( and this could be wrong ) was the reason they haven't found "A" is because "A" isn't a mutation. Its the "wild type" no mutation. "a" is a mutation of "A". So there is no mutation for "A" to actually find.

RiddleMeThis, that makes sense, I did ask on here once what the wild colour was & I was told Bay by one our our scientific fraternity.

Rabbit, if you can do all that come on over, you can move in here anytime!!!!! :rofl

Hmm, yes a black horse with tan muzzle (what I call seal brown or black/brown) is very different in appearance from the brown horses in those photos.

[quote="RiddleMeThis"]The impression I got ( and this could be wrong ) was the reason they haven't found "A" is because "A" isn't a mutation. Its the "wild type" no mutation. "a" is a mutation of "A". So there is no mutation for "A" to actually find.[/quote]

Oh that makes sense. So all they needed to find was 'a', 'At' and 'A+'. We're 2/3rds there. But still... 'E' is the wild type and they have that mutation don't they? Or are they just testing for the presence of 'e'??

They test for e

^Which is why the "ea" tested as "E".

Ah well that does make sense that the 'A' allele doesn't exactly exist per se' then.

I would really love to see if there are correlated phenotypic differences between At/a and At/At individuals. Also to see how it affects other things in the big picture. We've seen agouti in general can reduce the risk of melanoma in grays. ^_^

That being said. :lurk Just keep talking, this is a very interesting thread. :ymdaydream:

Hmm, there is an AtAt horse in the link posted. It is really quite red/ bay looking, much lighter than the other ones in the photos with only one copy of At.

Do you take pleasure in confuzzling an old lady?
None of those horses has a nose muff, what happened to the nose muff???