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Bay/Black or grey??

Our wee fella is a Section A Welshie. He was born 9 days ago. His father is black, his dam is grey (was born black and at the age of 13 still has dark points and alot of black through her coat), both of her parents were grey. Riley is a bay but has silver/grey legs. No grey whatsoever around his eyes or face. His skin is dark. Hes not a particulary bright bay and is getting darker and darker. He has a fawny coloured muzzle. He was also born with barring on his hind legs, and is very dark over his wither and rump area's. Any ideas on what he will end up? These photos were taken the day he was born.

Bentley Ponies Mon, 11/07/2011 - 21:12

The stallions father was bay, his dam was grey. He does come from a strong line of greys though but as I say showing no sign of greying out at this stage.
A couple of breeders who have seen him think he will go black. I have a feeling he will be a very dark bay/brown. I guess its a case of wait and see but I want to know now!! LOL
The 2nd photo was taken yesterday, you can see the dark shading coming in by his eyes

Monsterpony Tue, 11/08/2011 - 01:32

I don't see evidence of grey, just bay. There is no such thing as strong grey line. A horse either carries a grey mutation or it doesn't.

rabbitsfizz Tue, 11/08/2011 - 13:22

The colour, for a foal, is correct- foals are rarely if ever born with black legs- it's a camouflage thing.
When a foal is going to go Grey it invariably is a deep, rich version of it's base colour- your guy is just a "normal" Bay so I would guess that he is going to stay Bay.
For the record- Grey is Grey is Grey- all Greys are on their way to white, it's just that some take longer than others.
Some families do seem to Grey out more slowly, but that could just be coincidence, and a Grey is either h/Z or H/Z (hetero or homo zygous) Whatever the statistics show, an h/Z Grey will have 50% Greys and 50% solid coloured. Now, just because, by coincidence, a horse's first 100 babies happen to be Grey does not mean he is either H/Z or "strong" for Grey. It is just a coincidence.
Hope this makes sense and helps!
Cute baby!

Bentley Ponies Tue, 11/08/2011 - 15:55

So you think it will be more likely he will stay a bay, than go black?
We have a mare by the same stallion who was born a very similar colour to this wee fella and she is now black (pony in my profile pic).

Doesnt matter either way, we are just grateful for a healthy foal, but this colour thing fascinates me - we weren't expecting a bay out of this combination!

Monsterpony Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:04

In my opinion, that is definitely not a black foal coat. Do you have any more pictures of the black mare? She may actually be a very dark brown rather than black.

Bentley Ponies Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:13

In my opinion she is a true black. Have owned her for 2 years. The only time shes not black is when she is clipped out in winter and shes charcoal.

This photo of her was taken on Friday. She is 10 years old.

Thanks for the info!

Daylene Alford Wed, 11/09/2011 - 09:31

There are a couple of things that could be happening. Either one of the black parents is actually a brown or the foals are just born with an unusual foal coat. It's not impossible for a brown horse to look totally black.

For example, this guy is brown not black

[img]http://colorgenetics.info/equine_galler…]

All I can tell you for certain if you really have to know is test for agouti. If they are aa you know they are black regardless of the foal coat and if they are Aa you know that they are brown and one of the parents is actually brown as well.

Bentley Ponies Wed, 11/09/2011 - 14:31

Very interesting! There must be alot of horses in the world classed as black who are truely brown.
Will be a case of wait and see, Im hoping he will go the same colour as our other mare but bay would be a lovely suprise too - its just curiosity on my part LOL. I was really expecting a grey!!

Bentley Ponies Wed, 11/09/2011 - 17:37

Pretty cool! Do you think there would be much chance of our wee fella going that type of colour or more likely he will stay a bay?

Daylene Alford Wed, 11/09/2011 - 19:44

Under normal circumstances, I would say that he would be a lighter brown. Darker than a normal bay but not near as dark as the examples given above. However, given that his sibling was born a similar color and went very dark, it's really impossible to say.

Bentley Ponies Wed, 11/09/2011 - 21:23

The mare we have by the same stallion was out of a dark liver chestnut mare. This is a closer up head shot of our girl.