While I'm working on the site.....

I would add more pics for silver. The one of Lipi's stud is not the best example of silver black since he is grey too and therefore doesn't actually show the normal phenotype for silver.

Pretty sure I have some Silver Blacks, and I have a couple of Carlos now, too, Silver Bay Tobiano + Sabino....not sure if the Sabino shows but I can take some that do show it, if you want.
I can take some stood up ones of Willow, who is Silver Black, too, if you need them.
Also have a Red and White foal that is a basic Tobiano, but has obvious Splash (or it could be Sabino but I am thinking Splash) on her head.
You could use Amanda's stallion to show the effect of Silver on Grey??

Oh thanks for reminding me. I just sent a PM to someone asking for a silver photo.

And yes I agree we do need more silver photos. If you know someone feel free to ask. I am go looking through some of the RMH websites and send some emails. Never hurts to ask especially as silver has such a wide expression among breeds.

I can ask members on a horse forum I admin at if they have any silver photos that they'd be willing to share with you....or any photos really if you know of any other colors/modifiers/patterns/etc you'd need. Can have them directly e mail them to you. Just let me know what other ones you'd like and I can post there.

I understand the importance of explaining lwo gene but could we have an actual description of the frame pattern please

This is what I have so far for frame. Not sure exactly how to improve it. Now that I'm reading through it again I'm not happy with the "leave the legs solid" part as many frames have white legs.

Suggestions?

[quote]Frame is otherwise know as lethal white overo (LWO). It is lethal in its homozygous form with the foals being born solid white and only surviving a few days. They are born without a functional digestive track and unless euthanized die in gastric distress. Frame tends to put color on the barrel and face of the horse and leave the legs solid. It is well know to cause blue eyes. There have been cases of solid horses testing positive for frame so in any breed where frame is know to exist breeding stock should be tested. Frame is a dominate characteristic and breeding frame to frame does not increase your chances of obtaining a frame foal. 25% of foals from frame-to-frame breedings will die leaving 50% frame and 25% solid. Breeding a negative frame to a frame will give 50% solid and 50% frame foals. By only breeding nonframe to frame you effectively reduce your chance of a dead foal by 25%. The confusion among some breeders is most likely the result of horses carrying multiple white patterns such as sabino and splash in addition to frame.[/quote]

You could put in something about the jagged edging and horizontal patterning, also the origin of the name as it relates to how the pattern expresses itself, the types of facial marking, the frame mustache, and the lack of roaning. I don't know how technical you want to get in terms of the genetics. You could also include references to its history, the breeds that have it, the ones that don't and the test.

Er..I'd be happy to help with any of that!

Ok working from Maigray's suggestions I have modified the description as follows...

[quote]Frame is otherwise know as lethal white overo (LWO). Frame tends to put color on the barrel and face of the horse, move horizontal, and leave the legs solid (although other patterns can add leg white). It also tends to leave white that is "splotchy" with jagged edges. It is well know to cause blue eyes but not to cause roaning in the coat. The name "Frame" comes from the patterns propensity to leave a "frame" of color along the outer edges of the barrel.

Frame (LWO) is lethal in its homozygous form with the foals being born solid white and only surviving a few days. They are born without a functional digestive track and unless euthanized die in gastric distress. Because it is often hard to visually tell if a horse has frame (there have been cases of solids testing positive) it is important to test breeding stock in all breeds that carry frame in order to avoid producing a lethal white foal. Frame is a dominate characteristic and breeding frame to frame does not increase your chances of obtaining a frame foal. 25% of foals from frame-to-frame breedings will die leaving 50% frame and 25% solid. Breeding a negative frame to a frame will give 50% solid and 50% frame foals. By only breeding nonframe to frame you effectively reduce your chance of a dead foal by 25%. The confusion among some breeders is most likely the result of horses carrying multiple white patterns such as sabino and splash in addition to frame.[/quote]

I'm really not familiar with the history of frame nor do I know exactly what breeds carry it. Besides the ones I've listed below. If you want to add something Maigray please feel free.

QH
Paints
TB
Gypsies

I was thinking that there had been some discussion on the old board about the mustache being caused by splash instead of frame?

I was just thinking a blurb like this:

[quote]History: The frame pattern seems to have originated in North America, from horses brought over by Spanish colonialists and spread from there (reference to Sponenberg). It is probably most common in the American Paint Horse, but is also found in (insert examples here...)[/quote]

I'm sure Sponenberg wrote about the history of the color, but I don't have the book with me at the moment, so if someone does, they could provide the reference. It'll be a team effort!

As for the breeds, there are the Mustangs, and I think the TWH, MFT and Saddlebreds also carry it. I'm not sure how common it is in those breeds though. It's in Minis, also Shetlands - but I'm not sure if it's only in American minis and shetlands, or not. It's in Morgans, but only in 2 or 3 individuals last time I checked. Rabbit would know about the minis and shetlands, and Laura Behning would know about the Morgans.

You're welcome to use any pics of my silver bay mare - Waler x Arab (or any of my horses actually inregards to colour). Unfortunately after I bought her, EI hit so she went straight to a lease home and won't be with me until around September this year. Hence I have limited photos (especially nice ones that do her justice).