What to do

OMG that's an insane offer for a Section A stallion. SELL SELL SELL. Especially if you're writing the ponies off as a business expense.

I've seen national champion Section A stallions advertised for half that. :shock:

Just because you don't have a stallion yourself does not mean your giving up on your farm. There are alot of nice stallions out there and like you said you can always ask to retain some breedings.

OMG how did I miss that you lost Ditto? I just reread your post and went "whaaaaaaaat???" so I found the thread about it. I'm so, so sorry. :(

I know you're attached to Frodo so really the decision is up to you of course, but in this market a $10,000 offer sounds very exciting. Hmm, if you turn it down send her my way and I'll sell her Peanut.

I know. Right?
So why is it so hard to say yes???
I'm so attached to him. All the work that we've put into him... Do I just give up? I hate giving up, but I'm also tired of trying to make him into a 'nice' stallion...
There's some really nice section A stallions out there, but I've not come across any that make me go WOW like he does everytime I see him... Unless I imported one from UK... The ponies here remind me more of small morgans or arabs. I look at Frodo and say Welsh! Without a doubt...
Though Susanne has a full sibling coming next year... :lol:

Ugh...

[quote="Sara"]OMG how did I miss that you lost Ditto? I just reread your post and went "whaaaaaaaat???" so I found the thread about it. I'm so, so sorry. :(

I know you're attached to Frodo so really the decision is up to you of course, but in this market a $10,000 offer sounds very exciting. Hmm, if you turn it down send her my way and I'll sell her Peanut.[/quote]

Yeah. It sucked big time. Everyone misses her still...

Why Peanut and not Cory??? Would you sell Cory at any price?

See, that's a good question and I had to ponder that myself as I wrote to you and recommended selling Frodo... but no, Cory would not be for sale. Just this year as he is five I have made the final decision to keep him entire and really pursue this breeding thing. He will be trained to the phantom this summer and I will start showing him and advertising to outside mares. If I were to sell him I'd have to start over with another colt and I don't want to do that! Peanut would be for sale as he is the "junior version" of Cory. He only has about another month to hang on to his parts though and then if he isn't sold I'll geld him so he doesn't start to put on a stallion crest and I'll start him under saddle next year.

You had mentioned to me that you were thinking about gelding Frodo anyway so I think that's where the difference is.

I do agree with you about type and I prefer the Welshy Section A's over the Araby ones. I want lots of bone and substance. Section B is another matter and there I like the refined, hunter types.

I wouldn't think of it as giving up. He's a great little pony and you've done a fabulous job with him. You got him to the point where he became worth that money! If he'd been with me, he'd be a fat lump (albeit a typey, well bred lump) sitting in a pasture doing nothing, not worth a red cent. So it's your care and campaigning and training that has brought him where he is and caught a potential buyer's eye. And if you can retain breedings, then I say it's a fabulous deal! You get the frodo babies, the fruits of your labor, and you can focus on your mares and campaigning their foals and not dealing with woody woodpecker.

If you really do just want to geld him, I'd take the offer and retain breedings.

If you decide to keep him a stud, I would keep him.

This is a toughy! Best of luck. Not sure what I would do in this situation. How old is he now, btw? I can understand being very attached and not knowing what to do either way. BUT, can you (as in, you. I know the trainer can) even ride him? IMO, if I was not able to ride him, I would not geld.

Yeah... I know. I can't ride him unless I lost 60 lbs... Probably not going to happen soon. LOL.

She just emailed me and is buying Fortune. So that's good. I'm thinking of doing a counter offer and seeing how serious she is...

You are not giving up, you are upgrading!!
Two things to ponder deeply:-
This person may be able to turn him around and get him going properly, you never know. Just because you love him does not mean you are the right person to be handling him.
Gelding him is no guarantee of his changing his ways, he may never make a kids pony, some geldings do not settle!

All the real "born" kids ponies I have had and worked with have been like that from day one, ungelded and all, they just know what they are born to do and they do it.
I have had stallions who were down and out kids ponies, even in the breding season. A very well known show pony here, Welsh bred, Palomino, went by the name of "Bubbly", he showed, under saddle, in children's ridden classes and no-one even considered he was a stallion!
It was thanks to Bubbly that we now have a rule of "Mares and Geldings only" not because he was anything except perfect, but because some other idiot with a lesser stallion might have tried to emulate them!
My point is that if Frodo is not a good kids pony now, as an entire, gelding him might not do the trick, so I would be selling, I am afraid, and looking for a mature stallion, whose temperament is set and that you can see for yourself.
Once you have that you can breed the next generation, to bring up yourself.

Good points Rabbit...
I know it's a gamble to geld and see what he turns into. All I can say is that before he was bred that first time, he was a kids prospect. I'm pretty sure I messed up by not demanding manners that first time. If hindsight were 20/20...

You're also right in that she may be able to turn him around. She's already offered to get him ready for the hunter ring if I decide not to sell... Though at what cost, lol. I don't know... She is used to dealing with 17 handers with giant teeth so Frodo doesn't really bother her with his strutting and mouthiness.

Well, I upped the sell price to 12K. We'll see what she says...

She accepted :cry: :cry: LOL.
I know it's the best thing for him and probably me as well... It will give me the opportunity to move into the Cs and have a pony I can actually ride.
She's awaiting a sale to be finalized and she'll contact me when it does. She is a super nice person, and not too far away from me. And Mike has a client not too far from her facilities so I can/will visit and breeding is still open to me.
But gosh... I'm numb right now... :cry:

Well I was writing something else but when I went to post it showed me your latest so never mind.

Congratulations, I guess, and at least he is close and you can see him!

What were you writing? I still have time to change my mind! LOL.

Oh, I was just going to ask what happened with his first breeding that would have changed him so much.

No, seriously, go for it before the lady realizes how much a Section A stallion is worth! :lol:

He was shorter then Fortune and had gotten really frustrated trying to mount. Towards the end, I had let him keep jumping on her without trying to control his "exuberance" or manners. I 'think' he learned he could just jump on anything he wants and it began his dropping issue.
He was a sweet calm boy before and a handful the next day. I am ashamed as I always think of it as I ruined him.
But live and learn...

That still seems weird. Oh well.

Let us know as soon as it's final. I don't want to spill something and jinx it!

yeah, mums the word on the WMP boards... I owe three breedings and I need to get those taken care of before someone freaks out that I'm selling...
I don't think its a matter of finding out what a Section A stallion is worth... Frodo is unique. I've not found anything like him and the only two stallions I've absolutely fell in love with was Trefas Teran and Fronbach Hello Charlie... Some are just irreplacable.
But I've also probably jinxed the whole thing by putting it here anyway. LOL.

Oh well, just finished reading. I think you have probably done the right thing, it sounds like it anyway, and now you can relax and just enjoy the rest of your horses.

LOL Andrea, I'm sure the wmp people know something is up since, you know, you've been asking all these questions [b][i]totally anonymously[/i][/b] :lol:

LOL. Hey. They are totally hypothetical questions! :rofl

It is interesting about being able to freeze semen and retain the "breeding rights" to a stallion you sold... I could freeze 50 straws and sell them even though I don't own him anymore...
No, I'm not planning to. It is an interesting ethics issue, isn't it?

Not at all. He WAS yours. He was yours at the time of the collection and thus the results of the collection is yours. No different than breeding him to 50 mares just before you sell him really. The only place ethics might come in was if you marketed to his new owner's potential clients and offered them a cut rate to use the frozen or something, and even then you're still in the clear, but people might frown on it. Obviously collecting for just you is perfectly cool IMO.

Yeah I don't see a problem with it and in fact I'd encourage you to freeze some straws since you like him so much. Some people on wmp like to see something to get excited about when there isn't.

So anyway you need to finalize this soon because Pat is coming over to play ponies and drink wine and I would hate for the wine to loosen my tongue with good pony gossip!

Oh crap, that was insensitive, I'm sorry! I just remembered she was one of the judges but I didn't mean pony gossip in that way at all. I would have just gone and edited that part but I'm not sure if maybe you already saw it. I'm really sorry!

Pfft. LOL. It doesn't bother me. Let me know what she says. Why didn't she like him :cry:
No, really... It's not a big deal. Judges either love him or hate him and paired with the dropping... Well, he's not for everyone. LOL.

I onced turned down an insane amount of money for absolute favourite horse my Lipi stallion - I didn't want to part with him, a year later we were close to financial ruin due to hay crisis in south and i had to almost give him away - you have made the right decision, you never know what is around the corner.

Rabbit has never had a price on him, some horses just do not, and I have no regrets about turning down insane money for him as he was irreplaceable.
But....IF....a horse has even half a price on it , in your head, like "it would take so many thousands to get that horse away from me" all the rest is haggling, as the Vicar said to the choir girl :rofl
I think you are undoubtedly doing the right thing.
On the issue of reserving frozen semen, I think it is OK, but ONLY if the person you are selling the stallion to knows about it.
I think it is unethical if you were to do it, totally legally, and not mention it.
It would still be legal, but very bad manners!

ApHC you HAVE to tell the buyer about it, and the club...you have to get a retained semen permit to be able to produce eligible foals from the semen you kept.

Diane