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What color is this mare?

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Third Peppermint
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Re: What color is this mare?

Okay, so the default is pheomelanin... like the "default" sex in people is female?

That's really neat, I didn't even think of that! Now this makes the lighter colored black horses even weirder, but I guess there could be all sort of other genes that sort of mess with extension in some way or another.

So when a black horse gets bleached that's just the sun messing up eumelanin, right? Not like it's screwing with the receptors and making the cells produce pheomelanin.

Good luck with the interview. I've never been to Boston, but I heard it's nice! It has to be pretty tough traveling with only 3 weeks left...

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: What color is this mare?

Did you invite him to the forum? :angel

I gave him the URL, but a direct invite. I know he's a rather busy guy, but he does post sometimes on the Appaloosa Project.

Diane

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: What color is this mare?

Sorry, so busy...3 weeks of pregnancy left and I have to fly to Boston on Tuesday for a job interview...

Ooooh, Boston, LOOOOOVE the place (lived there more than a couple years ). How long are you staying, where, and where/what type of job are you interviewing for, huh, huh, huh???? :bounce :pop :pop :pop

Oh, and if you want to know some places to eat, let me know...I'm sure some of them are still around (since one had been in existance some 187 years when I left Boston!)

Diane

horsegen
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Re: What color is this mare?

Thanks... :-D Due to my "enlarged" state (read: the size of a manatee with a weight problem), I am only staying for 48 hours! I do not like being far from my doctor at this stage, but I would really like to do the interview now. (They offered to wait till after the baby was born, or wait till after we moved to Boston, or use Skype, which I felt put me at a disadvantage.) Baby seems to be staying put for now, so I figure it's just easier to do the interview and get my huge self back to CA! I'm flying out first thing tomorrow morning, arriving in the evening there, meeting with our landlord and signing paperwork (we're renting for the first year while we get things sorted out), and then Wednesday I have the interview from 9-4. My flight out is at 6:00, and I get back to Sacramento at 11:00! Should be a whirlwind!

The interview is for a post-doctoral teaching fellowship at Harvard Medical School, in Genetics and Genomics. Everybody keep your fingers crossed! It would be a great position to get and they seem really interested in me! Oh, and keep your fingers crossed that baby stays where he is too...nobody wants this baby to come in Boston! (Actually, since I still have some work to do writing the last two papers for my dissertation, I'd love it if he stays in the oven for another two weeks or so...but let's wish for a few days at a time!)

lipigirl
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Re: What color is this mare?

I hope it goes well for you horsegen.xxx

accphotography
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Re: What color is this mare?

We won't have our source at UC Davis anymore. *sniff sniff* This sucks. *goes to corner to pout*

Seriously Horsegen, that job sounds AWESOME! I'm excited for you and I hope it works out!

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NZ Appaloosas
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Re: What color is this mare?

Oh wow, I'm seriously impressed! Harvard! Looooove the quad, and there's a great bookstore in Cambridge (or well, was) that had just about everything...coming out of the T (from memory), you crossed the street and turned right. Also, there used to be a great coffee/tea house, just down past the bookstore. Think the bookstore was called Words Worth (or something like that), and I can't remember the name of the coffee shop.

Where are you renting? I lived in Cambridge for a while, but I'd have to walk it to find my apartment...don't remember the name of the street.

Ooooh, and there used to be a great Chinese restaurant around there....had the best lamb curry I ever ate. Can't remember the name of that, either, tho' :(

Diane

Jenks
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Re: What color is this mare?

I am sure that it's not necessary, but fingers crossed! You're good!

horsegen
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Re: What color is this mare?

Thanks everybody! I managed to get back last night in one (not two!) pieces, so that's a relief! I've flown over 6,000 miles in 48 hours and was awake for 20 hours straight yesterday, seven of which were this interview, so I'm still kind of recovering. It seemed like it went really, really well...so keep your fingers crossed! I should know something in about 10 days or so.

This position is actually at Harvard Medical School, not Harvard proper. The med school is actually in downtown Boston (and to note--I HATE Boston streets. Even with a GPS I was completely lost.). We are renting a house in Framingham, which is about 15 miles west of Boston. My husband is interested in eventually starting a radiology residency at Tufts, so that's a convenient location for us.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: What color is this mare?

Framingham is nice! I first ran into Robert Parish (Boston Celtics fame at the time), in a restaurant out there...literally! I turned around fast, and whomp! went right into the guy's stomach...he was a VERY tall person!

The streets of Boston are okay, once you get used to them. Word of advice, get used to wearing sneakers and carrying your nice shoes!! I must have destroyed over $10k's worth of good dress shoes before I wised up! Those bricks and cobblestones are total menaces on high heels. Once you learn the T stops and where the street are, the city ends up making some sort of sense.

At Gov't Centre (T stop, downtown, green line, where City Hall is), there used to be a sandwich shop/breakfast restaurant (the sit-down part was upstairs), called the Steaming Kettle...it was in/near the Sears Crescent Building. The huge kettle that's attached to the building has been steaming away for yonks, since steam engines were invented sort of time frame! The Union Oyster House, which from memory, is either down towards Fanueil Hall, or sort of over to the right, is the longest-continiously-run-as-restuaurant place in the country--some couple hundred years or so.

Myopia (big horsey country club which had a great polo team) was up past Peabody (pronounced "pee-biddy", and said really fast, with the accent on the first syllable) and Beverely. Lexington was the local "horse estates" back then, but I'm sure everything is a lot more built up than when I lived over there.

Newberry Street, which is off the green line, heading out the other way (west--used to be the Copthorne stop was the best one for getting to Newberry Street as it's over/in a street or two) used to have a lot neat boutiquey type shops, hoi paloi (or however that's spelled) clothing, etc.

Oh, and First Night (new years eve) is a total blast (or well, was!) in Boston...lots to see and do, all over the city, with outside performances, thrown-open doors at galleries and such, bands playing everywhere.

Now, car insurance companies used to offer a discount if you turned in 11 monthly passes to the T, for people who lived/worked in the Boston area...there are 3 levels of monthly passes--bus only; bus & T; bus, T and commuter rail. It was a decent discount off collision and theft, and IMO, well worth the cost of the montly pass--with you being in Framingham, I'd opt for the highest level. In the years I lived there, I kept moving further and further out from city central, and my car mileage kept going down. Last year I lived in the area, I drove less than a mile each way, despite having a 2-hour drive to the city. :D

Diane

appycowgirl64
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Re: What color is this mare?

Wow Horsegen. I hope everything works out for you.
I finally got the test results back on the mare and here is the email I received from Pet DNA Services of AZ. They got this test done really quick as I put the hair sample and form in the mail on Fri. the 28th of May. I just hadn't really considered her bay as her leg markings were not the normal solid black all the way down that a bay would be because she was brown below the knees and her mane had brown ends. Now at least I know her true color. I am wondering based on the fact that everything seems to carry from another horse genetically in color, if her dam could be carrying that and not the regular agouti even though from what I am reading and such that At is actually on the agouti locus if I got that right. This is where I am definitely lost in understanding this as I really feel that I am a newbie even though I have been trying to understand this for a few years when it comes to horse colors genetics. I did send mane in to Animal Genetics on several of my horses to have tested for cream and agouti depending on the horse. All of that stuff went out on Tues. June 2nd so I figure I should be hearing something soon on those horses.

Hello Loretta:

Dial a Morning Star's combined Agouti result is At/a. Based on the photos she seems to carry at least one dominant black gene (E), and thus her base color should be seal brown.

Thank you for the sample and please let me know if you have any questions. I will email you the PDF certificate within a few days.

Best regards!

Michal Prochazka, MD
Founder & Director
Pet DNA Services of Az
http://www.petdnaservicesaz.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Equine testing; Avian sexing)

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

Monsterpony
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Re: What color is this mare?

Since her dam is chestnut, you can't tell her agouti status by her appearance. She could be AAt, Ata or AtAt.

.

appycowgirl64
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Re: What color is this mare?

Humm, now it has me curious as to having her dam tested to find out her true status and it is now making me wonder if the two foals of hers that were red dun, if I should've sent their tests to Pet DNA instead of to Animal Genetics to test them for At as well instead of just the regular agouti.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

accphotography
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Re: What color is this mare?

Very cool! I love seeing brown test results. It's so early in the brown phenotype stage that every test result helps to train our eyes IMO.

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accphotography
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Re: What color is this mare?

Test the dam first if you can... just test her for regular agouti or the combo. If she tests 'Aa' at Animal Genetics then you know she can only pass brown (and any offspring by an 'aa' stallion will be either 'aa' or 'Ata') or if she's 'AA' you know you need a brown test to see if she's actually 'AAt' or 'AtAt'.

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appycowgirl64
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Re: What color is this mare?

So let me ask another question as well. Since she is heterozygous for the brown gene and not the bay gene does that mean with her being crossed with a black that is recessive for agouti that she would not produce a bay foal at all?

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

appycowgirl64
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Re: What color is this mare?

Well see ACC with this mare at this point I am assuming that she has at least one At and probably a recessive a as well since when she has been crossed with my stud (Ee/aa/Dd) she has produced 2 black foals and now this seal brown foal. I am thinking I probably wouldn't need to test her as I am assuming, hopefully correctly, that a black horse could not be carrying the brown gene otherwise it would be seal brown instead.

This now makes me wonder with Star's dam since we are saying that she was a dark chestnut that if maybe the At wasn't actually having some effect on the emualine (sp) gene?

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

accphotography
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Re: What color is this mare?

Oh bingo... no need to test the mare. She is definitely 'Ata'.

If you cross the filly with a black stallion you'll get either brown or black (50-50 shot at each) (or chestnut depending on the total genetics).

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appycowgirl64
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Re: What color is this mare?

Okay, now the plot thickens. I got the agouti tests back on my 2 red dun mares and they are both AA. My grulla stallion and the bay dun filly are nn for cream.
Now I am curious about some things given the test that Venus had of Ata which makes her dam Star "Ata" who is also the dam of my 2 red dun mares that tested AA through Animal Genetics. Obviously they both will be at least ATA because their dam is Ata. Now the bay dun filly is out of one of those red dun mares and by my grulla stud, so now I am going to have my 2 red dun mares tested for At since I know they have at least one copy from their dam and I am also considering testing that bay dun filly for At as well. What I am thinking is that if this filly does test out Ata since she can't get a positive copy from her grulla sire, how would she actually be called color wise, seal dun?

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

accphotography
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Re: What color is this mare?

Well, since the red dun mares obviously got an agouti from their sire(s) it's possible they carry the regular 'A' too. In that case the bay dun filly could be just that. What color is the red duns' sire(s)? You could test the filly for 'At', but it may not be necessary depending on that answer. I also wouldn't test the red duns depending on the sire...

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appycowgirl64
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Re: What color is this mare?

Well on both of those mares their sire is red dun. Here is his pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/big+duke..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So with knowing my mare Star's pedigree, with her high percentages of chestnuts, it could very easily be on that side as well. Most of that stallion's foals have been red dun. Also, it definitely looks like to me that his dam is improperly mislabled as far as color goes because I do know that Does A Rollin was a dun. For some reason I thought he was red dun but with the ApHC they don't give you a red dun color choice only a dun choice.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

accphotography
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Re: What color is this mare?

Yeah that doesn't help a bit sadly. :rofl

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