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What color foal?

indian March 31, 2009 February 22, 2011

Forums

Ok, a mare at ATI, IR Harlan King(grey, base coat unknown supposedly black due to the way she is graying) was bred to Boot Scootn Spark(red dun). She foaled out today and her foal was a grulla/o(he was a mousey color). The colt had all of the primitive markings(dorsal, leg barring, transverse wither stripe, etc) His legs were black in color and i pointed out he may not stay grulla/o. One of the girls there tonight said it wasn't 'grew-ya', it was 'grula'. She also said he may not be a grulla/o due to him being a foal. Also she said he won't go gray. Who's right here?? What color is the foal and what color will he be?

indian Wed, 01/06/2010 - 09:51

Ok FINALLY have new pics as a yearling!!!!!!! Please forgive me....I didn't realize he was peeing until after I took the pic...oops :rofl That is what happens when you have to get up at 4am....
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I say sooty bay dun. What do you guys think?

accphotography Wed, 01/06/2010 - 11:46

Bah... I still can't tell. but he's most certainly not red dun and highly unlikely he's graying IMO. So he's either bay dun or grullo, and I would probably have to test to be comfortable saying. It's possible photos in natural light might reveal more though.

lipigirl Wed, 01/06/2010 - 16:24

I would say from what I can see that he is a Dunskin but please test and let us know.

Arock Wed, 01/06/2010 - 17:22

Looks like every bay dun (zebra dun) I've ever seen or had. Great primitive markings!
Not a grulla, sorry.

The old timers used to call these sooty looking duns "coyote dun"

Fledgesflight Wed, 01/06/2010 - 17:42

Could go either way...want to see more in natural light- lol the saga continues.

rabbitsfizz Fri, 01/08/2010 - 10:58

Yes, I have to say, not a typical Grulla, although I would not rule out the possibility completely.
Since he is a typical Bay Dun, I would go for the obvious, it's easiest!!

Jenks Thu, 01/14/2010 - 10:27

He's going gray isn't he? Do you have a better one with his tail? I think he may be the red dun with gray that was mentioned earlier.

indian Thu, 01/14/2010 - 10:35

His mane and tail are black with a ton of frosting, He's got black legs. The outdoor pics look odd since it was early morning.

Jenks Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:08

I just went and looked at photos and now I don't know anything! LOL

He does look like what some others have posted as grullo - red young and what is said to be "Silver" grullo (no Z, just a phenotype) - that turn silvery later on.

Post a pic of his tail and if gray has started, we'll see it there. The bottom hairs loose the color first. So it will almost look like it's been dipped in bleach. It won't be strands like frosting. You may not see gray until he's 4 or so, but you will see it in the tail before that.

Danni Thu, 01/14/2010 - 14:08

I still think he's grey too!

We are going to have to test him to put us out of our misery!! :lol:

Arock Thu, 01/14/2010 - 19:16

:shock: OK....show me the grey???? Sorry, I just don't see it. He is a yearling, right?

Jenks Fri, 01/15/2010 - 07:27

His rich color in his foal coat indicates gray as well as his tail and his color now compared to then.

rabbitsfizz Fri, 01/15/2010 - 13:43

Nope, can't see it.

But my monitor may just not be as sharp as some.

Or my eyesight.

:booty

Jenks Fri, 01/15/2010 - 14:04

There's only one pic of his tail and it's lifted, but I see the faded ends. That plus the extraordinary color in the baby pics, the red hair turning dark, that all makes me think grey. I do not see the goggles though.

But I was thinking about also, because Jazzy came up, and remembered Gordon Walter's friesian colt. He was black at birth and is black. And not grey. Definitley a one-off? Is it all Friesians? So if that is the case, things may vary from breed to breed on the same gene?

And then the Fjords....what are the genetics of their grey duns? White duns? Is that phenotype not genotype? Does the dun eventually fade to total white/grey? Very interesting....

Sorry, sort of veering off-topic here.

Maigray Fri, 01/15/2010 - 14:27

No, some blacks are just born black. I've heard and seen pictures from Arabian breeders who specialize in black. Sometimes their foals are born truly black. I think it's something you might see in successive generations of black breeding, but it's not generally the norm in random black foals.

Monsterpony Fri, 01/15/2010 - 16:28

Fjord genetics are simple; they only have extension, agouti, cream and dun.

Grå/grey= grulla (or smokey grulla)
Brunblakk/brown= bay dun
Rodblakk/red= red dun
Ulsblakk/white= dunskin (buckskin dun)
Gul/yellow= dunalino (palomino dun)
Kvit= cremello/perlino/smokey cream dun (these are unregisterable)

And no, their color doesn't fade (unless they are crossed with an appaloosa, but that was due to varnishing :D)

Jenks Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:44

Thanks! To both of you!

Fjords seem to be consistently more obvious. Or maybe it's my brief foray into them. Does being homozy. for dun accentuate it?

Monsterpony Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:53

Most fjords are homozygous for dun, but I have heard that, with the release of the dun gene test, that there are some fjords testing as heterozygous. I haven't ever seen a non-dun fjord, but it is possible. I also haven't heard of any appreciable difference between homozygous and heterozygous.

Jenks Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:59

[quote="Monsterpony"]Most fjords are homozygous for dun, but I have heard that, with the release of the dun gene test, that there are some fjords testing as heterozygous. I haven't ever seen a non-dun fjord, but it is possible. I also haven't heard of any appreciable difference between homozygous and heterozygous.[/quote]

That is odd. About the possibilty of a non-dun Fjord out of 2 hetero duns. It's like a red base. But then, if only a few in thousands are hetero? "Some" could mean 2 of 10 or 2 of a thousand?

They just look "bright" dun. Is it just me?

Maigray Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:36

It's like the Exmoor ponies, they appear to be all bay + pangare, the entire breed, but if you go behind the scenes, every year I saw at least one black foal born. But they're denied registration, most people never see them and the breed is so rare anyway, you would never know.

rabbitsfizz Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:29

And the Bays without pangare.
And the bays with pangare and with white markings, or have they managed to eradicate that now??