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Welsh and/or silver people

So I have been able to find owners of at least two splash white Icelandics that are presumed deaf and one silver Icelandic with blindness in one eye that might be linked to MCOA. Now I just need to hear from Welsh breeders about splash and deafness. I haven't been able to find any forums for Welsh breeders (I know they exist, but I must be using the wrong search terms to find them). Anyone know some that may be helpful? Also, I know there are members here that breed silver horses of a multitude of breeds. Have any of you ever seen or heard of silvers outside of the Rocky Mountain Horse breed that are affect with multiple congenital ocular anomalies/ASD? Or can anyone point me in the direction of a good source as I know several of you are better at digging through the internet than I am?

Andrea Fri, 01/08/2010 - 20:43

There's a yahoo group... WMP2: http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's more of a list/email type thing instead of a forum like this.
Though it's doubtful may will have splash white info... They've not yet embraced the splash gene :lol:

The only one I know of that may help in your endeavors would be Ronnie Ellison at The Promise Welsh. He's very friendly and loves talking ponies and color and genes...

Monsterpony Fri, 01/08/2010 - 22:13

I actually sent Ronnie Ellison an email earlier today. Thanks for the list link though. It could be quite helpful. On the Icelandic horse list, at first several people said it didn't happen in Icelandics and then all of the sudden at least two different people reported their splash horses being deaf. Then suddenly lots of people were really interested in what I and the others had to say.

rabbitsfizz Sat, 01/09/2010 - 10:03

Yes, there was a Mini.....you could go and ask on Lil Beginnings, or do a search on there, they have quite a sophisticated topic search engine, now....
I have never heard of Splash affecting a pony's hearing, I have known it in Mini mare, although my own Splash mare is not affected in any way, if anything she has too good hearing!
I have to say that the Splash Welsh I have dealt with have been fairly minimal, but I had a wild marked Arab X Welsh X TB mare whose hearing was fine, and a slightly less wild full sister, also unaffected.
Most of the wild marked Splash Welsh I have had have been unregistered, so could be part bred, but, again, good riding ponies and not deaf.

rabbitsfizz Sun, 01/10/2010 - 09:18

See, full colour (medicine hat) over the ears?? I think we decided that was the key??
He is a nice boy, quite typey in spite of the pattern....

critterkeeper Mon, 01/11/2010 - 17:07

Oh what a handsome pony...I'm in love.... :love

MP, my Patches is splash (all the patterns but tobi) and is definitely NOT deaf (she can hear the squeek of the hinges on the feed bin from a mile away)...

thorwood Tue, 03/09/2010 - 05:51

Hey, I have a pic of a splash horse with coloured ears that is deaf.
Just have to see if I can find it.
The breeder said the dam was deaf as well.

Monsterpony Tue, 03/09/2010 - 10:26

The majority of splashed white deaf horses I have found have solid ears. The ears seem to be the one point that all the white patterns avoid until they are a fully expressed as possible.

Thorwood, I would love those photos if you can send them to me.

Jenks- I used Chase as my example in my presentation for not trusting ear movements as a sign of hearing ability. I received a few questions about the images as the vets were quite intrigued by the whole deafness thing.

Danni Tue, 03/09/2010 - 16:40

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]Did we not decide that if the ears were full coloured it was likely the horse would not be deaf....and if not...[/quote]

From what I've gathered the ones with coloured ears were usually not deaf, but sometimes splash can effect the inner ear and outer ear still be coloured?

There is a welsh forum for Australia that is pretty active, but I don't think you'd have a lot of luck with the splash questions.
http://www.allwelsh.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The lady I bought my homozygous silver colt from has bred a lot of silvers over the years. She was sort of "taffy shetlands of australia" LOL. She's closed her website down but I could track down her contact details if you wanted to chat to her?
Cheers

Danni

rabbitsfizz Wed, 03/10/2010 - 10:19

Yes, that was it, the colour has to include the ear, not necessarily the outside but the inside is important. So, MP, how does that fit with what you found?
My only experience of deafness was a little imported mare whose deafness was not declared on purchase (oh it happened in the plane going over...oh, of [i]course[/i] it did, cos, you know all those jumping horses and racehorses that fly each year, [i]constantly[/i] going deaf!!) She was LWO and we at first thought that was what was affecting her. That was when, I think,I found the Millard line in Oz, anyway, I realised from that that it was the Splash part of her make up that was contributing the deafness.
Because she had been a broodmare, and the deafness had never been adressed, she was a headcase, but she was worked with, with sign language, and she responded very well.
Then her owner decided to breed form her again.
And bred her to an imported stallion who was....how did you guess??
And she had a foal that died at four days....how sad...how ignorant :BH :BH :BH how stupid, how [i]bloody[/i] avoidable!!!!!
:hammer :sign :hammer :sign

Monsterpony Wed, 03/10/2010 - 10:24

Yes, it does have to affect the neural crest cells going to the inner ear, but the inner ear of the horse is much further down the head towards the nose the exterior portion of the ear. The ear canal of a horse is quite long and traces down towards the eye before it reaches the ear drum and into the inner ear.

Morgan Sun, 03/28/2010 - 13:00

MP could you draw out of copy something that shows where all the ear stuff is? I've been trying to find an anatomy drawing or something for ages but nothing has been clear enough. :BH
Oh and there is a deaf horse group getting started on facebook, starting to pick up! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Deaf-Hors…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's an interesting one on there right now, presented as "not splash" I have my doubts about that but it would be interesting if it was a deaf frame, what do you guys think? http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And my other two Splashes, Classy and V, are definitely NOT deaf. but they have more color up top of the head...
Didn't that study find it was a lot of splash/frames that were deaf too? I wonder if maybe frame is boosting it somehow? Chase's dam was frame and his markings are rather more symmetrical than splash alone but he has obvious sabino too so that might be doing it. Classy and V are both LWO negative. But I'm pretty sure Gunner isn't frame, I just wonder if the horse is more likely to be deaf with both I guess? :S

accphotography Sun, 03/28/2010 - 13:51

I see no reason to think that horse isn't splash.

Gunner is not frame, nor is the majority of his family/descendants that are deaf.