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Weird Andalusians - What's going on here?

Third Peppermint September 03, 2009 February 22, 2011

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I ran across some oddly colored Andalusians at Tintagel Andalusians (website: http://tintagelandalusians.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). If you go to http://tintagelandalusians.com/andalusian_mares_sale.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and scroll down to Despina you can see what appears to be a lovely flaxen chestnut filly. The weird thing is that she's had TWO separate DNA color tests that say she is actually seal brown. Her mane and tail are a mix of flaxen, chestnut, black, and silver hairs, her body appears a typical chestnut color, and she has browning on the tips of her ears and on her one solid foot. She has some sabino roaning, too. You can see her here: http://tintagelandalusians.com/mares_dibujada.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The weird thing is that her sire and dam are both color tested and they match their colors. Dam, Dibujada, is a flaxen chestnut sabino mare, tested to carry the seal brown modifier. Sire, Comico, is a bay sabino/ rabicano. He tested as a typical bay. Here's a link to one of his pages: http://tintagelandalusians.com/stallions_comico2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I looked at the parent's other offspring. Dibujada had another filly named Susannah by a chestnut sabino stallion named Diego. This filly is a flaxen chestnut sabino and tested as such. Comico is a little more interesting. He has a colt named Ferrando by a grey mare (http://tintagelandalusians.com/andalusian_stallions_sale.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; scroll down) who is tested as seal brown again, but appears a lovely iridescent gold-brown color. He also has a normal (DNA color tested) black sabino colt, bay sabino filly, and a bay filly (hasn't been tested as far as I can tell). Any ideas what could be affecting Despina the filly?

TheRedHayflinger Thu, 09/03/2009 - 12:08

Despina looks like a bay silver to me almost...but they dont' have any silver test results...but that is the only thing I can think of when I see her.

and that mare, Dibujada, is so pretty.....i loooooove that color

accphotography Thu, 09/03/2009 - 13:33

If I'm not mistaken, Andys do have silver, but it's fairly rare. I would certainly be testing for it in this case as that filly is just STRAAAANGE. Honestly, even if she DID have silver, I think she'd still have "some 'splainin' to do".

mimimorgan Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:08

Wild bay - or wild bay + sabino - can do weird things to a bay horse's color, making them look flaxen chestnut or silver. I would expect to see more expression of chocolate leg points if this were a silver, though that's not necessarily always the case :-). But with sabino running so strongly in this family it's likely to be the culprit messing with the mare's color. She tested AtA meaning her visible bay gene is the non brown Agouti. That "A" could possibly be wild bay. She may also be one of those wild bay-like youngsters who develop leg points later.

Third Peppermint Sat, 09/12/2009 - 15:10

[quote="accphotography"]I wonder if they mistyped the AtA. For some reason that's not making sense to me.[/quote]

Apparently the owners were skeptical, too, because they had her tested again at a separate lab and got the same results.

accphotography Sat, 09/12/2009 - 16:32

So she is homozygous agouti, carrying a brown allele and another allele (most likely wild bay given her appearance)?

The way they worded I was SURE they meant she was seal brown, which is why I didn't understand their writing it the way they did. Unless she is homozygous At, if she is homozygous agouti, she won't be phenotypically seal. Both regular bay and wild bay are dominant over seal from what we know (and her phenotype supports that).

Since the sire is heterozygous agouti and clearly normal bay, than would imply the dam is carrying seal and/or wild.

What I'm not understanding is how this filly is carrying seal or wild. Since she's homozygous she clearly got a dominant allele from each parent. The sire *should* only have regular bay to pass. The dam could pass any one of the three, but since the sire didn't pass seal, she had to have been the culprit. Which would mean the filly is carrying one normal bay and one seal... no wild. This makes no sense.

RiddleMeThis Sat, 09/12/2009 - 19:17

[quote="accphotography"]
Since the sire is heterozygous agouti and clearly normal bay, than would imply the dam is carrying seal and/or wild.

What I'm not understanding is how this filly is carrying seal or wild. Since she's homozygous she clearly got a dominant allele from each parent. The sire *should* only have regular bay to pass. The dam could pass any one of the three, but since the sire didn't pass seal, she had to have been the culprit. Which would mean the filly is carrying one normal bay and one seal... no wild. This makes no sense.[/quote]Well shes only a yearling. Those points could easily come in in the next two years.

RiddleMeThis Sat, 09/12/2009 - 20:22

[quote="accphotography"]Still, you have to admit, she's pretty odd looking even for a yearling. It's not just her points that throw me.[/quote]
Oh no I completely agree. She is VERY odd, reminds me of the KK arabs.

accphotography Sun, 09/13/2009 - 13:45

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]Am I the only one who is still skeptical of the AT thing??
After all we have seen a few tests bite the dust recently, and this one still is not published, nor proven.[/quote]

Which tests have bitten the dust?

Heather Sun, 09/13/2009 - 17:14

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]Am I the only one who is still skeptical of the AT thing??
After all we have seen a few tests bite the dust recently, and this one still is not published, nor proven.[/quote]

They havent sold me.

rabbitsfizz Mon, 09/14/2009 - 04:43

They may be but it is not offering acceptable results,
Remember they offered the Tobi test when it was not really a definite result.
As I understand it, Dun is the same, it tests for markers around Dun, but not for Dun itself.
The new Tobiano test is heterozygous safe as well as just homozygous.
And I am not sold on At either,I'm afraid.

champagneqh Sun, 10/11/2009 - 20:55

[quote="Third Peppermint"]
Apparently the owners were skeptical, too, because they had her tested again at a separate lab and got the same results.[/quote]

I was under the impression that only one lab offered the test for brown am I mistaken? If not then how was she tested for brown at 2 labs?
Rikki

accphotography Sun, 10/11/2009 - 21:04

[quote="champagneqh"][quote="Third Peppermint"]
Apparently the owners were skeptical, too, because they had her tested again at a separate lab and got the same results.[/quote]

I was under the impression that only one lab offered the test for brown am I mistaken? If not then how was she tested for brown at 2 labs?
Rikki[/quote]

That's true. I'm thinking maybe they thought the extension test was the error.