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*thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

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Jordie0587
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

He's NOT gray. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Not reading the rest of the thread, either liver roan or silver roan, maybe even one of the two and varnish?

Now I'll finish and see what he ends up being, too cute!

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accphotography
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Tjuri those look quite DW to me.

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Arabica
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Sabino-Roans or DW?:

http://www.manyponies.com/stallions/blue..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/maresfillies/b..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/maresfillies/b..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/maresfillies/s..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
they all have one common ancestor:
http://www.manyponies.com/stallions/sequ..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

different sire/bloodline - Father and sons, note the test results of Jester:
http://www.manyponies.com/stallions/sabi..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/stallions/jest..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/Colts/2008colt..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/Colts/2008colt..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

three more mares:
http://www.manyponies.com/maresfillies/d..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/maresfillies/g..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.manyponies.com/maresfillies/d..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now that you have an idea of what to look for I'll bet there will be more DWs found all over the place.

Monsterpony
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Almost 11 months ago to the day from UC Davis.

Now how did I miss that?!

.

lillith
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Isn't the test only for certain breeds though?

Are there enough RnRn horses around to indicate that there is nothing lethal about the hz form or could there still be a nearby gene that causes RnRn to be lethal sometimes?

If they are hetero then I guess the supressor and booster theory is the best one I've come up with so far. :)

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rabbitsfizz
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Well, you are in good company if you missed the Roan test coming out as I did too.
So what exactly does it test?
Is it like the Dun test, or is it still breed specific?

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Jenks
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Well, you are in good company if you missed the Roan test coming out as I did too.
So what exactly does it test?
Is it like the Dun test, or is it still breed specific?

I'm double bad, I missed it and grey too.

Danni
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Well, you are in good company if you missed the Roan test coming out as I did too.
So what exactly does it test?
Is it like the Dun test, or is it still breed specific?

When it came out it said breed specific, just QH/Paints I think, but since it's come out nearly every breed seems to test positive if they are the obvious roan with dark face. Mini's, Welshies, Gypsies etc..

Acc said she thinks the European Belgians test different? I hadn't heard that before, don't really understand why they would when the UK breeds seen to test ok? But obviously if they aren't testing positive, then it must be different!

Edit to say I believe it's just a zygosity test too, like dun, so markers not the actual gene.

accphotography
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

It is a zygosity like dun, but it has shown to be EXTREMELY accurate and the are adding breeds all the time now it seems. I seriously doubt they will ever add Brabants as I am quite confident they're a separate mutation somehow.

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NZ Appaloosas
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Yes there's been a gray test for about a year.

I've seen it on countless roans these days. Check out the Brabants. Little to no sabino in them and most have lots of roaning on their faces and same down to their legs.

Roans only:

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Roxie.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/08foal_4.jpg)

Uhm, first one has a pretty big blaze, and the second one has what looks to be a joined star and snip, so I wouldn't rule out sabino.

Diane

accphotography
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

I'm not ruling sabino out at all, I'm just saying the chances of a horse being THAT roaned from sabino when they have no more than a stripe is very slim IMO.

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NZ Appaloosas
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Having now read the whole thread, including the bit about suppressors, I've had a thought...indication is that Lp might achieve higher levels of expression thru' the assisastance of other white patterning genes, i.e., sabino, maybe splash, etc. Might that not also be the case with other white patterning genes...that if there is another white patterning gene present, the expression of the "main" gene is louder/larger? Has anyone seen a classic roan with a roany face minus any other chrome (no leg or other facial marking)?

Diane

accphotography
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Brabants. They have little to no sabino and are very often roaned on the face and legs.

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NZ Appaloosas
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

I've looked at some photos on the 'net, and I'm seeing socks, stars, etc. From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_%28..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the American Brabant society: http://www.theamericanbrabantassociation..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (down at the bottom, bay with star).

Diane

accphotography
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Do you think the occasional stars found in Friesians cause them to show any roaning?

There are tons of Brabants on that site with excessive roaning and zero white.

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NZ Appaloosas
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

LOL...not sure I'd use Fresians, in light of their extremely strict requirements. I wouldn't put it past them to pull papers on any that showed sabino roaning. :rofl

I don't know enough about Brabants...I did see a few that looked like grey is in their population, plus a few that looked like they had mealy to the extreme...could be that their roaning isn't classic roaning, but something else. As far as "sabino" and I are concerned, I'm of the opinion that sabino is like "overo", a term to use to describe a number of different patterns that affect similar areas but are likely caused by different genes/uterine environment. It could well end up being that sabino roaning isn't really sabino but a variation on classic roaning or some such.

Diane

lillith
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Could it be possible that Lplp is actualy quite common and most high white horses have one or more copies, whatever it is with it enhances?

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Danni
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

From the American Brabant society: http://www.theamericanbrabantassociation..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was a good range of pics, I'd never really noticed so many Belgians with roaned faces before. I guess because they still have the darks legs maybe and still look obviously more classic roan :?

Hey a bit off topic but does anyone know what these silver bay looking horses are?? The heavier ones are chunkyish a bit like a Belgian which why I thought of them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gypsy_cob/2..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gypsy_cob/3..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gypsy_cob/3..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dogrose
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

They are Comtois, I'm 100% certain they have silver, I've seen too many picutes where it is obvious. They are always described as chestnut. I have seen pics of black based, brown based and bay based silver Comtois, silver black and silver bay Comtois crosses and plain bay Comtois, mostly on French slaughter rescue message boards. I think Comtois are fairly small for draughts, about 14.2 ish usually? Or a little more.

[color=#804000][i]I bought me a horse twas called a grey mare
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Weren't a hair upon her that was not coal black[/i][/color]

Sara
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Okay, lots of info in this thread and I admit I skimmed a lot of it, but I had to pop in to say that I have seen "roan" socks and "roan" faces in horses who are not classic roan so roans with roany faces and legs could easily have something else going on. These roan socks I've seen are not associated with sabino type ticking anywhere else on the body and in one case the horse had only one roan sock, the remainder of his legs were solid. I can't even recall his base color but I'm thinking bay...

Another with a roan sock was going gray but again the sock was distinct, just as though it were a white marking only it was roaned instead of pure white, and did not appear to have anything to do with his graying. It remained the same density of roaniness (I am making up words in this post, I think) through his gray progressions but I don't see him any more so I don't know what eventually happened to it.

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

I personally think the type of Roan socks you are talking about are caused by suppression and if the horse didn't have a suppresser the sock would have been normal markings. and thus would have on effect on body roaning

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rabbitsfizz
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

I also think when you get one roany sock on it's own it is something else.
If you had all four legs roan, that's another thing entirely, but the one roan leg, I always think of the similar markings on collies.....

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tjuri
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Has there been published anything regarding the fact that roan is now NOT assumed to be lethal in its homozygous form (and in which breeds exactly)?
...there is still this article as link on the info page though:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10051325" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RiddleMeThis
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Nothing published in a journal as far as I am aware, but here is a scanned copy of UC Davis RNRN test results from a HZ Roan TWH.
IMAGE(http://www.mywalkinghorse.com/sitebuilder/images/uc_davis-638x501.jpg)

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tjuri
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

Thanks, RMT - I went to UC Davis and they have published at least a first statement on their info site:
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/Roan..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do any of the mods think it could be used as a reference until a more detailed report will be published?

I also ask this since I send so many people to this board who have questions and I feel the roan question is not up-to-date represented in this article right now:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10051325" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

accphotography
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

I agree. We need to update that, even if we put a caveat in it.

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rabbitsfizz
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

I have to admit that, although I am not so happy with zygosity tests, they do seem to lead fairly quickly to a real test, as with Dun.

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tjuri
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

What are the current theories saying about rabicano??? Location, combination with classic roan possible etc? Incomplete dominant? :roll: :?:

accphotography
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

If that were the case we'd see classic roans out of two rabicano parents... I can't say I've ever heard of that.

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Arabica
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Re: *thud* *faints* Color people heads up...

I think in TBs at least that rabicano has something to do with the roan expressed by Catch A Bird. All of the roan offspring of his that I have seen have shown rabicano traits and some brindling as well.

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