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Sooty and Dun (New pics pg 2!) :D

TheSwingHorse September 18, 2010 February 22, 2011

Forums

Hey everyone. My friend's dunskin gelding is just getting darker and darker every year. His dun markings are becoming more prominent, etc. Thing we are confused about is certain areas that aren't typically considered "primitive marking" spots have a sooty look to it. He was so pale and creamy when she first got him and now we aren't sure if this is just extreme dun or dun and sooty working together. Its underneath his stomach, on his butt coming down his hip, coming down his middle neck and all the way down onto his shoulder and throatlatch. Also, his face is getting really dark. And, his dapples are darker than normal. I plan to take some photos probably tomorrow. In the mean time, could you guys post some examples of extreme dun and dun and sooty working together. We also have some questions regarding her grullo colt (who is doing great after his surgery, btw!) but I'll get into that more later. :) THANKS EVERYONE!

Threnody Sun, 10/24/2010 - 22:47

That's what I've thought too JNFerrigno.
Since dun dilutes both red and black pigment it likely just causes sooty to be hidden through dilution. Dun can make regular bay horses look like they have a wild bay base because the leg black gets so diluted.

JNFerrigno Sun, 10/24/2010 - 23:49

If that's what you've been meaning this entire time, I am dreadfully embarrassed LOL. And I apologize for any grey hairs I may have caused. It could explain why we see growing dun factor as the horses ages, it's just the growing sooty pattern expressing through in areas that dun allows.

Monsterpony Mon, 10/25/2010 - 00:46

Considering that dun shifts the pigment to the underside of the hair, it would be hard to tell how much pigment is present without looking at it under a microscope.

Danni Mon, 10/25/2010 - 04:13

[quote="Threnody"]Since dun dilutes both red and black pigment it likely just causes sooty to be hidden through dilution. [/quote]

Yes! That's exactly what I figure dun is doing! Like you said too JNF, the sooty just shows up where the dun factor/markings are. So a more sooty base could have darker dun factor compared to a less sooty base perhaps.

accphotography Mon, 10/25/2010 - 12:05

Well even I can't deny that sooty can express in the dun factor areas as, like I said earlier, what else would explain a black dorsal on a dunalino (who happens to be perfectly clear coated btw).

RiddleMeThis Mon, 10/25/2010 - 17:42

IMO if dun was just diluting the sooty, you would still see it as IMO dun is going to dilute whereever it dilutes X amount. It's not going to dilute the barrel X% but then on the barrel where there would be sooty dilute it Y% so it matches.

Threnody Mon, 10/25/2010 - 20:54

I suspect that agouti has something to do with that, since both red and black pigment are present in the same individual.

Also double creams have shown that red and black pigment can be diluted to practically the same tone.

JNFerrigno Tue, 10/26/2010 - 00:29

[quote="RiddleMeThis"]IMO if dun was just diluting the sooty, you would still see it as IMO dun is going to dilute whereever it dilutes X amount. It's not going to dilute the barrel X% but then on the barrel where there would be sooty dilute it Y% so it matches.[/quote]
Those horses with the clean barrels may not be sooty then. From what I've seen of sooty, it gradually is expressed as the horse ages, some more quickly then others.