Roan Expression
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Re: Roan Expression
This my face paper hancock mare (and two back on the bottom side)[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-…]
Is the top horse your posted also hancock? Or only the bottom?
Re: Roan Expression
my neighbors (and boyfriends cousin's)classic roan stallion--Sunfrost Bronsin:
http://vangundystables.tripod.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ACC has a pic of his sire who is minimal expressed true roan too--PC Bronsin
another horse that comes to mind is Yellow Roan Of Texas
http://www.oasisranchinc.com/yellow_roa…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.horse-genetics.com/Yellow-Ro…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Roan Expression
[quote="DunDreamin"]I think Hancock horses are known, commonly as roans.. but we also have one sorrel and one black f2nd or 3rd gen. hancock.
(Sorry, trying to decipher your comment with the pics lol) And learning at the same time.[/quote]
Sorry I should explain. In Sponenberg's book, he proposes a few different types of white ticking/roaning. Wish I had the book right now, but I put it some where and can't find it. I think he classes them by levels of expression and where the white hairs fall on the body. There was the classic roan, which we associate with roan, then there was frosty which is I believe the other proposed type of roan that Hancock Horses are believed to have.
Re: Roan Expression
[quote="JNFerrigno"]In Sponenberg's book, he proposes a few different types of white ticking/roaning. Wish I had the book right now, but I put it some where and can't find it. I think he classes them by levels of expression and where the white hairs fall on the body. There was the classic roan, which we associate with roan, then there was frosty which is I believe the other proposed type of roan that Hancock Horses are believed to have.[/quote]
That second link you put up still looks roan? It's got the slightly darker 'scars' or whatever they call those marks. It's an interesting look though as it's very minimal but still all over. Other more minimal roans I have seen have the roan just over the croup?
Do the Hancock roans test as roans? Sponenbergs books drive me nuts, I can't read them as he uses localised names for colours instead of genetic names. If you are in a breed or region that uses different names it is especially irritating. :smile:
Re: Roan Expression
[quote="JNFerrigno"][quote="DunDreamin"]I think Hancock horses are known, commonly as roans.. but we also have one sorrel and one black f2nd or 3rd gen. hancock.
(Sorry, trying to decipher your comment with the pics lol) And learning at the same time.[/quote]
Sorry I should explain. In Sponenberg's book, he proposes a few different types of white ticking/roaning. Wish I had the book right now, but I put it some where and can't find it. I think he classes them by levels of expression and where the white hairs fall on the body. There was the classic roan, which we associate with roan, then there was frosty which is I believe the other proposed type of roan that Hancock Horses are believed to have.[/quote]
Ok, so going by the placement of white hair.. what would you say about Tas Blue Hustler? She has a VERY odd hind sock with black specs (if that's relevant at all)..
She is VERY blue (as seen in the other pic) but she's faded :sad She's been the "lawn horse" right now since the mower broke ymwhisle
Sorry.. bad pics.. couldn't get her to stand still right then.. her kid was in the pool (human kid.. will share if interested lol)
[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-…]
Re: Roan Expression
Yeah I ended up with more questions in this last book then I had before. And I think he calls that form of roaning pattern something different (the minimal that is just over the points of the body, like hip and shoulder) I think he called that Roaned, and used it as an adjective instead of the gene for Roan. And from what I understood the roan hancocks test as something different. But isn't the roan test like the dun test? Where it's done by parentage and pedigree verification?
Re: Roan Expression
I'd have to have ask, because last I talked with a some one in person a year ago (Leah Patton) she said the hancock horses were testing for something different. And I didn't even know of the brabants. And Dundreamin I'd call that roan. The white speckled leg, I don't know what to think of, I've seen in in sabino before, so maybe it's got something to do with the kit locus? Don't know, I'm as new as you are to this group so I'm still being corrected on what I thought I knew LOL.
Re: Roan Expression
I'm 98% sure what she meant is that they were testing separate from Brabants. That they were showing NOT to be HZ lethal (like the Brabants are), etc. When they started testing roans they were only using Quarter Horses (primarily the Hancock lines) and now they've expanded it to virtually all breeds so clearly they have pinpointed the singular roan gene markers.
Re: Roan Expression
[quote="JNFerrigno"]I'd have to have ask, because last I talked with a some one in person a year ago (Leah Patton) she said the hancock horses were testing for something different. And I didn't even know of the brabants. And Dundreamin I'd call that roan. The white speckled leg, I don't know what to think of, I've seen in in sabino before, so maybe it's got something to do with the kit locus? Don't know, I'm as new as you are to this group so I'm still being corrected on what I thought I knew LOL.[/quote]
Wow.. my brain is falling out of my head between this and the bider thread lmao!
I need to find that book. So roan=classic roan according to, to the best of your memory, the book/white hairs?
And now I'm off to check out "kit locus"
lol
I breed for bloodlines and performance.. happen to hope for color, which we get.. and now I have to go back to school apparently! lol
Re: Roan Expression
we had a roan TWH at college...summer he looked closer to true roan, but the other three seasons he didn't look so much like one...I only have one pic of him on this computer, I have another taken the same day in the barn though, but it's at home. This was during our Campus Park Patrol class...we had to do a parade and my dad so kindly grabbed my digital camera and snapped pics for me..lol. He is the dark one on the left. The one on the right is also a TWH named Bubba with our teacher up on him.
Re: Roan Expression
okay..i lied...I forgot I had my photo CDs here with me..haha
Re: Roan Expression
Winter coats screw up everything LOL. You think your palomino is going to have a lighter coat, thats typical of palominos, but the darn thing looks like a light chestnut once the coat grows in. A friend of mine on another forum has a chestnut paso mare, and sent me some photos last year of her in her winter coat. The mare ended up looking like a strange cross between bay and dun, but not expressing either one completely.
Re: Roan Expression
One of my ponies got his name because of the seasonal changes of roan. He is called Black Magic because he would turned completely solid (to the untrained eye) every fall and then suddenly turn white during the spring shed when roans will shed their dark hair first.
Re: Roan Expression
[quote="Monsterpony"]then suddenly turn white during the spring shed when roans will shed their dark hair first.[/quote]
ehh that's funny, all my paints shed the white first, I wonder what controls that...
I agree with the winter coats making everything go weird. The worst I've had I think was the flea bitten grey, beautiful silver with brown speckles and white mane in summer and then he'd just go mucky drab grey. Come to think of it, he shed the white first too. :-|
The sooty buckskin had banded hairs so she was dark in the summer and then in the winter the hairs would grow long and she looked like a chinchilla. :lol:
Re: Roan Expression
I was pondering white pattern expression the last couple days. It got me thinking about how we have such a specific criteria for the varying levels of appy pattern, yet all the other white patterns tend to be either they have it or they don't. Tobi can be just that little wither spot and leg white or a full blown tobi, but both are just called tobiano. Or roan can be very white or hard to see. Not really an answer to your question, just what I have been contemplating.