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QH Broodmare with Mealy/Pangare ?

Hi everyone. I have recently took up studying equine color genetics and love it! It is very interesting. Well I have a Bay Quarter Horse Broodmare that seems to show mealy/pangare(more so in the winter months). She is registered as a plain Bay but she isn't like any plain Bay mare I've ever owned or seen. She is light on the legs(which makes the black points only about 6 inches high or so), under her belly, muzzle, on her tail head, and around her eyes. Her Dam is a plain Bay and Sire is a Dark Bay Dun. I am mainly wondering how she got it? Does she pass is on? She has had 4 (ALL Palominos) colts with the same Buckskin stallion [and one on way :smile: ]. Is this affecting her having all Palominoes or is it just coincidence? I can't wait to see what she is having this next year...but I have a feeling...another palomino. They are all very good babies and I don't think anything is wrong with Palominos...I just tend to like surprises! Lol If you know what I mean. :-D I'm pretty sure its mealy but could it be maybe "wild type bay"? I plan on breeding her to a different sire in the following years so I need to know if her having this will "change" any chances of her having say...a buckskin, dun, or other color babies? Thanks for any help!

anshorsenut88 Tue, 12/21/2010 - 17:20

I was able to get a few good pictures of her today when I fed her. It's been hard to get some she is almost always dirty lol. She loves to roll.... maybe trying to make herself a different color I suppose! Haha. I do have summer pics of her too, right before she foaled. I will upload them and add them when I get done working tonight. Thanks for everyone's response and interest! :-)

anshorsenut88 Wed, 12/22/2010 - 00:00

[color=#000080]Ok, as promised here are some pictures. I took these today at feeding time. She is always such a hungry girl! lol I guess that's a good thing with the little baby on board! :smile: Hope these pictures help you more. Thanks again! [/color][attachment=2]DSCF0880.JPG[/attachment] [attachment=1]DSCF0871.JPG[/attachment] [attachment=0]DSCF0882.JPG[/attachment]

JNFerrigno Wed, 12/22/2010 - 01:18

I don't know if it would be considered pangare or not. I guess by definition it is? But to me the mare looks no different then some of the wild bay feral ponies and horses we have in the states. Plus it's winter time in those pictures. So I might dismiss the nose. The lighter hair between the legs, I honestly don't know if I would agree on attributing that to pangare or not. Simple based on the horses I've had to clip or sheath clean. Bay or chestnut they've always had light colored hairs, or at least the ones I remember off the top of my head. But thats just my view on it, I've never researched the modifier.

anshorsenut88 Wed, 12/22/2010 - 12:19

I thought the "wild bay type" also but someone said that it isn't real popular in quarter horses and that it was more likely to be pangare or a mix of both maybe. Thanks for everyone's comments! Her registered name "Marys Miss Holidoc" and her dam is "Docs Mary". Unfortunately I can't find any pictures of her though. :( She was just a broodmare I think and I'm sure they didn't feel the need to take too many pictures. I do have some spring pics right before she foaled on May 9, 2010 and she still has the light muzzle and some light on her feet. However, seems that hot Texas summers are hard on pasture horses hair and skin. All my horses tend to loose hair on their face (around the eyes) and muzzle. But the tip of her nose still holds true to the light tan color during that time. Thanks again for everyone's help. :)
~~~Amanda~~~

anshorsenut88 Wed, 12/22/2010 - 12:33

Here are the late spring (May 2010) pictures of her just days before she foaled. You can still see the light areas on her and her lighter muzzle. One of these pictures actually looks like she had some dapples coming out on her coat, which was weird! Lol. But she was being fed some really great feed at that time (Calf Manna by Manna Pro) which still puts an amazing "sheen" on her coat that my camera can't manage to pick up...but it is really pretty looking! :smile: [attachment=2]DSCF0512crop.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=1]DSCF0292crop.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=0]DSCF0294crop.jpg[/attachment]

JNFerrigno Wed, 12/22/2010 - 15:55

Alright in those last two pictures I see pangare. Or at least what acts like pangare on bay (the whitish grey hairs coming in under the chin). And the lightening on her side is much more prominate and spread out, as would be expected on pangare horses. This is why I like summer time photos instead of winter time!

Danni Thu, 12/23/2010 - 03:37

Yeh I think she still looks like she has a bit of pangare, not majorly so, but I can see it there. Summer pictures are much better for judging colour I reckon. Her black points are more normal there too. I wouldn't call them light enough to be wild bay?

anshorsenut88 Thu, 12/23/2010 - 09:43

Ok cool. Thanks everybody for your comments and interest! I was wondering....do they have a test out for Pangare? I have tried to research it and I couldn't find anything. I love to see so many test that you can do on your horses lol. Its so cool to be able to get into their DNA and see what they are really made of and how all these different combinations make up the horses we see today! :) Thanks again for everyone's help. It seems so much easier to me to learn all this genetics stuff if I can see it and experience it. I am just so lucky I have some good candidates out in my pasture. I have a very Sooty Buckskin...so I can see how that works; a possibly mealy bay; a palomino to see how the cream dilution gene works; a gray mare that just seems to get more and more "white" every year and I can see how that works on a base coat; and I take care of my dad's black/white paint horse (which is a whole new thing that I haven't even started getting into yet haha). I'm just trying to figure out all the base colors, dilutions, modifiers, and mutations .... I think I'll start getting into all the other "paint" and "appaloosa" traits when I can truly say I have all this down LOL! DNA testing and "equine genetics" is definitely not a big thing where I live, so I am pretty much all alone on learning the topic. :) Thankfully my sweet boyfriend is interested and asks questions, quizzes me, and helps research stuff all the time! :love

rodeoratdogs Thu, 12/23/2010 - 10:20

Love the pedigree on your mare :mrgreen: Nice choice on the stallion too, maybe you'll get a buckskin this time. ;-)
The reason your getting Pali is that both your mare and the sire have a recessive red gene and the sire is contributing the cream, but there is no reason she shouldn't have a buckskin since the sire and dam are both bay base, odd's are I would say, this is your year for a buckskin, that is as long as the you get creme from the stud again, fingers crossed.

anshorsenut88 Thu, 12/23/2010 - 12:21

[color=#000080]Thanks rodeoratdogs! :-D I thought it would be a great combination too. Her colt Elvis is definitely one of a kind. LOL. She always has pretty babies (the ones I have seen). This is probably my last breeding to Elvis' sire because his breed fee is $1000. Not sure I am going to be able to afford it this year. That is what I thought just not sure why it happened 3 times now. And all BOYS! Lol. Not that they are that bad ...its just the whole "gelding process" is a hard thing. We are hoping for a little buckskin filly or even colt. But as long as it is a healthy baby I'll be happy! :) Well thanks I sure hope so.... fingers crossed. ;) I am going to attach the pictures of her two other colts by this sire so you can see what I mean. They all look very similar (except for the white markings on the face).
(Oh and by the way I didn't name the other two colts just Elvis) :) Sorry they are so small...its the only pictures I have of them. [/color]
[attachment=1]2008 Palomino colt (Holly x Muchos Billy Boon).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]2009 palomino colt (Holly x Muchos Billy Boon).jpg[/attachment]

anshorsenut88 Thu, 12/23/2010 - 12:36

[color=#000080]Oh yea and her are some pics of Elvis (Hollys Boondoc King) when he was 2 days old. My avatar pic is of him at 6 months old. I'll keep you posted on what she has but its gonna be a while lol. She isn't due until beginning of June. We couldn't get her in to get my last breeding until the end of June.[/color]
[attachment=2]3.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1]4.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]6.jpg[/attachment]

rodeoratdogs Thu, 12/23/2010 - 12:56

All really nice colts, their breeding shows color aside, but I'd say the pali color is quite a nice little bonus. So did you purchase the mare from Texas Double L Ranch then? They have nice horses.

anshorsenut88 Thu, 12/23/2010 - 13:42

Thanks! Yes I agree I like all horses, but the cream and dun dilutes are probably my favorite! I did get her from there but it was through trade of a riding mare that had a bit more attitude than I was willing to deal with LOL! She was ok just not what I wanted. I advertised her for sale online and Tina from the Texas Double L Ranch was really interested in her but wanted to trade for one of her good broodmares that was in foal to her stallion (2 for 1 deal). Haha. They do have really nice horses and are great people! Is that your horse in the picture? It is very nice too. Amazing to see little babies grow up like that. I can't wait for Elvis to go into training but then again ... I think I'll just cherish the moments when he is still a baby LOL.

rodeoratdogs Thu, 12/23/2010 - 14:17

Oh if you like the Dunskins you would like this stallion, he's here is Washinton but she does ship semen for QH mares. He's HZ dun HZ black and carries cream with a nice pedigree.
http://www.dunitslidinquarterhorses.com…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When I do breed my mare he's a strong contender, and she's aa so I have a 50% of getting Grulla and 50% of bay dun because he's Aa. My mare is a red dun Paint splash/sabino and very minimally expressed rabicano. I actually have only owned her since March, I got her from a friend who passed away from cancer. I was able get a hold of the breeder and she was nice enough to give me a whole bunch of baby pics of her. My other horse is 2008 gelding bred similar to your mare (line bred Doc Bar x Poco Lena, Doc O Lena)
There is a bunch of pics of both of them on my website.

anshorsenut88 Thu, 12/23/2010 - 16:50

OH WOW! I do love him! I agree, I like his pedigree and he looks great! I did want to breed her to something out of Hollywood Dun It or even something out of Reminic. They have really nice babies and good performance crops! $600 isn't too bad to breed him either...I might have to check into that. :) Thanks! I didn't know if I was going to get a chance to re-breed her this year due to funds. I recently graduated from college and haven't found a job yet. So she might get a break this next year...I don't know yet. I was thinking something along the line of a cream or a dun stallion...or both lol. I am curious now as to what Holly would throw with that stallion "Dun It Ok"!?!? Lol. I do love the pictures of your mare "Annie". She is a very good looking mare. Well that's real nice of them. I have a gray grade mare that I've wondered what she looked like as a baby, but can't seem to get anyone to get back to me about that from her past. I know she has some foundation quarter horse breeding in her because she is so "big" and "thick". Lol. I'll have to get some pictures up on here of all my kiddos haha. I think I have a horse in just about every base color category. :) Except for dun or sorrel. So your in Washington huh? I have a friend here that used to live in Ellensburg, WA. She talks about how pretty it was up there all the time.

rodeoratdogs Thu, 12/23/2010 - 18:17

Yeah I hear ya, I really want to breed Annie to Dun it Ok but I don't have a job right now and I'm going back to school..... lol! Money isn't really any issue, just that we board right now so ideally I would like to wait until we buy horse property again until we breed. We live in western WA near Seattle, and it is pretty here but it rains all the time, so we are thinking maybe we would like to move to northern CA, all of our family is here though, deep roots.
Anyhow yeah I think $600 is super reasonable for him, and you would atleast get a dun and possibly a dunskin.