Due to decreasing use over the years, I have decided to disable the forum functionality of the site.

Forums will still be available to view but new posts are no longer allowed.

Possible silvers?

accphotography February 08, 2010 February 22, 2011

Forums

I've become suspicious of two horses. They have no known silver in their pedigree and their parents don't look silver, but they are full sisters and two of the oddest phenotypes I've ever seen, especially for a non silver. So tell me... what do YOU think? Sire: http://www.monnensquarterhorses.com/Pictures/12-30-05.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.monnensquarterhorses.com/Sires/Cider04.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Dam: http://www.monnensquarterhorses.com/Pictures/Mares/Miss%20Poco%20Blackm…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Offspring #1 (mare): http://www.monnensquarterhorses.com/Pictures/Mares/Beckywood%205-09.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Look how red her pasterns are. http://www.monnensquarterhorses.com/Pictures/2009%20Foals/ChipXBecky%20…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; A different time of year they're black. http://www.monnensquarterhorses.com/2009%20Foals/BeckyxChip%20L%202%209…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Offspring #2: http://static.equine.com/listing_images/9/8/2/982293_13031465_hd.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://static.equine.com/listing_images/9/8/2/982293_13031470_hd.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; What's going on here? I mean the obvious conclusion is that the first is a bleached smokey black and the second is a smokey brown. That fits quite well... except for the oddly red pasterns on #1 and the REALLY odd mane and tail on #2. Help.

lipigirl Mon, 02/08/2010 - 17:06

I don't personally see silver here, yes they are unusual but I don't suspect silver, could be cream and possible Pangare and also some sunbleaching going on.

Fledgesflight Mon, 02/08/2010 - 17:08

1. Black/Brown/Bay (can't explain red legs though unless she's actually Liver Chestnut)
2. Flaxen Liver Chestnut

No Silver.

Monsterpony Mon, 02/08/2010 - 19:48

I see black for the first and smokey brown for the second, but, given they are QHs, I wouldn't 100% ruleout silver possibility without a test.

Fledgesflight Tue, 02/09/2010 - 17:59

[quote]And your thoughts if the sire is homozygous black?[/quote]

Has the sire been tested Homozgous Black?

accphotography Tue, 02/09/2010 - 18:07

Sometimes it's inhibited, sometimes it's not. Just because you can show us one doesn't mean that's the way it is.

The sire is dead. He had 234 foal, only 3 of them could have been red (registered red, but can't find photos so they could be misregistered). I am 100% confident he was homozygous.

Fledgesflight Tue, 02/09/2010 - 18:25

[quote="accphotography"]Sometimes it's inhibited, sometimes it's not[/quote]
EXACTLY- my [b]POINT[/b] Exactly!!!

[quote] Just because you can show us one doesn't mean that's the way it is.[/quote]

[b]LOLZ[/b]!! I've shown you many! Yep Silver can be expressed in great quantities or in small amounts to none at all [b]with [/b]or [b]without [/b]Cream. So stop kicking a dead horse! :rofl

.

Fledgesflight Tue, 02/09/2010 - 18:28

Ahh...too bad he is dead. Sounds like he was Homozygous.

Both Black with Cream perhaps? Will they test them?

accphotography Tue, 02/09/2010 - 18:31

I'm not the one that started doing the kicking this time Fledges and you know it. ;) It is what it is. I trust RF's 30+ years hands on experience.

I don't know if they'll test them or not. I think I may write them and ask them to.

accphotography Tue, 02/09/2010 - 19:01

I dunno, I've seen it in enough not related to each other.

That one is definitely a brown base and almost exactly what I'd anticipate a brown based silver + cream to look like.

Fledgesflight Tue, 02/09/2010 - 22:41

[quote]
That one is definitely a brown base and almost exactly what I'd anticipate a brown based silver + cream to look like.
[/quote]
Couldn't agree more :)

rabbitsfizz Wed, 02/10/2010 - 04:51

[quote="Fledgesflight"]http://forum.silverequine.com/is-my-hor…

*sigh* No Silver being inhibited here (Mindari's horses).[/quote]
Right, cos, if it's on an Internet site, it [i]has[/i] to be true?
Honestly, that is a little bit lame!
Some people think the adage has truth, some do not, can you not just leave it at that?
I have seen enough instances where it is true, to think it may have some truth, just as with Silver and Grey , this is not [i]proven[/i] either, but has been seen often enough to think that it may be true.
Absolutely NONE of the Appy theories have been proven yet I see experienced people jumping on the bandwagon left right and centre.
Now, for goodness sake, just give it a rest!!! :BH

Fledgesflight Wed, 02/10/2010 - 16:50

Umm..You're the one who brought it back up, this isn't about Grey + Silver or Appy patterns it's about Silver + Cream and all the samples you refuse to acknowledge for whatever reason- and in case you haven't noticed; this IS an internet site.

accphotography Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:37

You know, I haven't really looked for other oddities. When I get a chance I'll do that. Hopefully I'll be able to find some. Considering these are full sisters the dam is just as likely to be the oddity, except that she just looks normal jet black. *shrugs* But I'll dig around and report back.

accphotography Thu, 02/11/2010 - 01:46

The problem I'm running into is most horses I find with one of them in the pedigree, they are at least 3 gens back. The sire was born in '78 and the dam in '84. That's making it hard to find photos. That and these appear to be true RANCH, using horses... those don't usually get put on the net.

ETA: I've proven mare #2 has cream. She has a tested perlino son.

ETA2: I've hit a dead end on the other mare. I get no hits on her at all so I pulled her progeny. She's got two buckskins and a black (the one in the photos). The problem is I can't tell if the sire of the two buckskins has cream or not. His pedigree says he could. He has several foals that are clearly buckskin, however EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is out of a Ciderwood (sire if the OP mare's who we know is cream) mare. :BH :BH :BH

So, if this guy isn't cream we know both of these odd mares are cream at least. If he is cream, who knows about mare #1.

TKM Dakota Frost:
http://www.monnensquarterhorses.com/Sir…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

accphotography Thu, 02/11/2010 - 14:42

I didn't really have any doubt. I firmly believe they're both cream (on brown and black). I just want to know if they're anything else in addition. *sigh*

bonjovifan Thu, 02/11/2010 - 22:31

I would say the stallion is a smokey black & horse 1 & 2 are a smokey black & a smokey brown.