The Colors of Life

You are here

Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

30 posts / 0 new
Last post
PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??
This is a black spot that has come up on Jackie...on her chest. What causes spots like this? Is this odd or normal? IMAGE(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb252/KountryGirlKreationz/Horses/Jackie/2009/June/IMG_0517.jpg) IMAGE(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb252/KountryGirlKreationz/Horses/Jackie/2009/June/IMG_0518.jpg)
accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

It's a Bend Or spot. Perfectly normal. :)

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Oh Ok...didn't know duns got em, but I guess any horse can?

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Yup, pretty much. Some people think they are related to sooty, but I disagree as I've seem them on horses with no sign of sooty. I find they are FAR less common on bay bases than on red, but I still see them sometimes. Obviously they don't show on black.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Sara
Sara's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 4 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

I do think that they have something to do with sooty, just a different level of expression. It's all speculation, however, since we really have no concrete proof either way.

I agree that I see them far more frequently on red bases (chestnut, palomino) than black bases. They are incredibly common in Welshes. Cory, Texas and Bree all have several.

[url=http://www.myrewyn.com/]Myrewyn Equestrian[/url]

[url=http://myrewyn.com/sales/]New! Updated sales list.[/url]

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Ok so can a chestnut carry or express sooty??
Are/can duns be sooty??
Ok tell me exactly what sooty is!

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Theory is that anything can be sooty. I *personally* have never witnessed sooty on a dun (which is part of why I think Bend Ors aren't sooty related), but I guess it's possible.

Morgans are the best place to look at sooty:
http://colormorgans.tripod.com/palomino.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anything on that page that is abnormally dark is theoretically sooty. That site also has lovely examples on buckskin, chestnut, etc.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

lipigirl
lipigirl's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 4 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

My bay Paso Fino mare has a large bendor on her butt next to her tail. You can see it on the left of her tail, you can also see the coon tail from her rabicano - sorry do not have any other pics at the mo -

IMAGE(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g139/Lipigirl/Pasos/PICT0021.jpg)

Sara
Sara's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 4 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Theory is that anything can be sooty. I *personally* have never witnessed sooty on a dun (which is part of why I think Bend Ors aren't sooty related), but I guess it's possible.

That was part of what was confusing my thinking at first also (I have never seen a sooty dun either but then again I've only seen one dun in real life :roll: ) but then someone here posted a photo of a really sooty one. I think it was a bay dun. I don't remember who posted it but it was a long time ago, possibly before you joined.

My thoughts on sooty are sort of related to how I see sabino. Sometimes what we call sabino will be covered in white ticking like my pony Tickle, other times they just have their white hairs concentrated into socks and blazes. Sooty could be the same way -- sometimes evenly throughout the body, sometimes concentrated in certain areas. :-?? Anyway, just a thought.

[url=http://www.myrewyn.com/]Myrewyn Equestrian[/url]

[url=http://myrewyn.com/sales/]New! Updated sales list.[/url]

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

I'd love to see any photo of a sooty dun without cream. I've been trying to find one for two years.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Sara
Sara's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 4 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

I wish I could remember who posted it. we had been using sooty or lack thereof to help determine the difference between duns and buckskins here for people who posted in the "what color is my horse" section, and then someone posted a proven dun with sooty. Then again, maybe it was cream too and we/they just didn't know it.

[url=http://www.myrewyn.com/]Myrewyn Equestrian[/url]

[url=http://myrewyn.com/sales/]New! Updated sales list.[/url]

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Wow I'd never heard that!! Cool idea though!

Yup, it may have been cream too. I'm not sure why but that seems to allow the sooty.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Heather
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

depending on if you think brown is due to some sooty lol this guy makes me think sooty

http://buckskinconnection.com/stallions.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW all three of my bays have bendor.

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Well, two things about him. One, he has a cream sire so he *could* be cream. Two, he could be a brown base. I actually don't see anything about him that looks sooty to me. He just looks like he has a darker base color than the average "bay dun".

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Ok I'm at work & fixin to head home, so I'll read the link when I get home.

So can they test for sooty??

Would you think this is something I should test Jackie for??
I maybe be able to do the test within a week or so...so what all things should I test for & which lab would be the best to use??

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Nope, sooty is still at the theory stage.

Diane

Morgan
Morgan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

sooty is the sabino scapegoat's cousin :D

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

depending on if you think brown is due to some sooty lol this guy makes me think sooty

http://buckskinconnection.com/stallions.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW all three of my bays have bendor.

WOW!!! He's gorgeous!! :love :love :love

I did come across this link...
http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Color..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think I've noticed black or dark hairs around her body...not to the point that they're real noticeable.
Dunno if I can get pics of them or not...may try.

NZ Appaloosas
NZ Appaloosas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/14/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

I was thinking today that Bubba is a great example for the existence of sooty, but as he's currently a tri-colour (red, black and grey mud...) taking photos was not an option. Which was a shame as he's showing a definitely difference between the "red" of his bay and the "dark" of his head, a patch on his neck, along his hip, and a few other places...

Diane

Monsterpony
Monsterpony's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

I may have found a sooty dun. I'm not sure that he isn't just a bay with countershading, but I pulled hairs and compared them to a normal bay and the pigment distribution was definitely different.

.

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Hmmmm. Interesting.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

I may have found a sooty dun. I'm not sure that he isn't just a bay with countershading, but I pulled hairs and compared them to a normal bay and the pigment distribution was definitely different.

Where o where?? Please share...if you can!!

Monsterpony
Monsterpony's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Ok, I obtained permission for photos, but these may NOT be copied or saved by anyone for any purpose at all.

I was asked to get the bay dun from his stall and I actually walked past him several times because he is so dark that he looks bay without closer inspection.

He has a very rich chocolate colored head and his body is not typical bay or bay dun.
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/frontsun.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/headsun.jpg)

Very obvious dorsal stripe. He also has some leg bars and black shadowing on the shoulders (not really bars, more like sooty running his shoulders).
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/dorsal.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/dorsal2.jpg)

In the sun, he is very shiny, but not entirely red nor yellow. The best I can describe is brown (like the color of dirt, not the phenotype)
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/sunRside.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/sunLside.jpg)

In his stall, he is more dark yellowish tan than reddish, but still not anything like I have seen.
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/stallRside.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/stallLside.jpg)

His legs have black points that do have red highlights in the sun and body colored feathers.
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/leftleg.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/rightleg.jpg)

My sad attempt to photograph through a microscope. The left is the horse in question, the right is a normal bay. The horse's hair had a different orientation of pigment and was more yellow than the red of the bay horse's.
IMAGE(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/bay%20maybe/hair.jpg)

Again, do NOT for any reason copy or save these photos for any purpose.

.

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

He's really very strange. In a few photos I thought just bay, in a few I thought bay/brown dun, in a few I thought clearly buckskin. I *really* do think he could be just a bay, but that's probably not the most likely. As much as I question the dun for some reason, it is probably real. However I very strongly think cream is involved here. I also think it's very likely this is a brown base.

I personally don't see any sooty unless he's not a dun (sooty causing intense countershading). The only thing that reminds me of sooty is the dark head, but that's a dun thing too.

He looks like he needs a treat and a hug. :) :love

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Monsterpony
Monsterpony's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Isn't he just odd? You should see him in person. I have been changing my mind every five minutes.

.

Morgan
Morgan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

You know, I've seen a dun darker than that, very dark redish brown and had a two inch thick black dorsal with little lines coming out each side of it. quite stripy and smudged looking everywhere else. No pictures or even name though, she was in a stall at vets and my day there was a bit distracting lol.

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Can you tell if he's really faded? Do you think this is his normal, healthy coat color?

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

accphotography
accphotography's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 10 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

Well if this is dun, just about any amount of darkness can be. :laugh1
http://duncentralstation.com/BrownBayDun..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think that's a sooty effect ^ FWIW. I think sometimes dun just doesn't dilute that much.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Morgan
Morgan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

His body is lighter than the dun I had but Julio had lower points. Sorry about picture size, they're the only ones I have scanned in.
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/Julio2.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/Juilo1.jpg)
dorsal, shoulder bars, plenty of leg bars and even the funny little blond stripe up the back of the legs.

PamelaTX
PamelaTX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/17/09
Re: Ok gotta question....what would cause this spot??

WOW!!! Interesting!! I wouldn't have thought dun either.
Instead of bay dun could he be brown dun?
Has he been tested for dun?
Could be countershading...dunno.
Thanks for sharing!!