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Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

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PamelaTX
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Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)
Well my dun filly is limping pretty bad. I checked her leg & cleaned out the hoof, no visible sign of injury. Felt around & didn't feel any heat but may have some slight swelling around the fetlock. This is her left front. She ate fine. Any ideas on how to possibly treat something thats not noticeably visible?? Thinkin maybe my other filly may have kicked her or slipped in the mud??
vneerland
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

I called my vet the day of the lameness (a weekend....of course) and because he was already on farm call, I negotiated some bute to be left out for me. I never used it: she was walking normally less than a day after the first signs of dramatic lameness. :o When I did pick up the bute the next day, my vet was at the clinic. Said he'd had 8 after closing farm calls that afternoon, all lame in a similar manner. :? And you know what? My neighbor later told me she had the same very unexpected lameness in one of her mares. No injuries, no visible swelling. They soaked the foot (in bleach I think) and less than a day later, she was fine again. And now that you mention your filly, I can report a friend of mine in the same general area who had the vet come out just this afternoon for his lame horse. :shock:
All I can tell you at this point is not to panic until you really have to. While I cannot tell you what it is/was that is/was going on, I can tell you that I know of a more than a few cases where dramatic lameness just disappears again. I hope you are in that same group. (and if you need bute right now...travel west. I never used mine)

accphotography
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Could be an abscess brewing.

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PamelaTX
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Well just called my 1 vet I can go to his house & get some banamine.

With an abcess (if thats what it is) what do you do? Just wait??

Morgan
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Swelling low down and sudden bad limping makes me thing abscess. Do you know how to check for digital pulse? If you can find a large throbbing pulse chances are it's in the foot.
Also is she walking on her toe? A bruise or abscess makes them hold their sole off the ground as much as they can.
Scrub the sole of the hoof with soap and water and a stiff brush and press with your fingers and look for a puncture or crack. If there is one you may need the vet to check if there is anything in it and disinfect and may have to wrap it for a bit. If there is nothing on the bottom the abscess will probably work it's way up and bust out the coronary band.

treatment would be soaking with epsom salts and just leave her turned out. do not let anyone dig it out. can open it to infection by digging it before it's ready, especially if you dont know exactly where it is or how deep. If you and vet are sure it's an abscess go ahead with bute or something. keeps them moving which can help work it out faster.

PamelaTX
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Swelling low down makes me thing abscess. Do you know how to check for digital pulse? If you can find a large throbbing pulse chances are it's in the foot.
Also is she walking on her toe? A bruise or abscess makes them hold their sole off the ground as much as they can.

treatment would be soaking with epsom salts and just leave her turned out. do not let anyone dig it out. can open it to infection by digging it before it's ready, especially if you dont know exactly where it is or how deep. If you and vet are sure it's an abscess go ahead with bute or something. keeps them moving which can help work it out faster.


Well it looks like there may be some slight swelling. No I sure don't know how to check for that.
I don't think she walkin on the toe...I know when just stands there she rests it on the toe.

I'm off to my vets house to get banamine...I'll ask what he thinks. be back shortly.

Thanks for all y'alls help....may need more later.

PamelaTX
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Just got back from gettin some banamine from my vet.

He also suggested soaking her hoof "just in case" since were not sure whats wrong.

My question is ( I forgot to ask him ) how much epsom salt & do you use cold or warm water??

Monsterpony
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Use boiling hot water and stir in epsom salts until they stop dissolving. Usually by the time you have gotten in all the epsom salts, the water has cooled down enough that you can soak with it. You want the water as warm as your horse is willing to accept.

.

CMhorses
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

I would also check the whole hoof for any bulges (abcesses). We had a horse that had a bulge in his hoof on the front around his coronet band; had to give him penacillin for a week.

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PamelaTX
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Use boiling hot water and stir in epsom salts until they stop dissolving. Usually by the time you have gotten in all the epsom salts, the water has cooled down enough that you can soak with it. You want the water as warm as your horse is willing to accept.

So boiling hot & then let it cool some?
But how much salt or does it matter?

When I checked the hoof earlier I didn't see anything, but once I soak it & its cleaner I'll check better.

Monsterpony
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

You add as much salt as the water will dissolve. I usually add 3 or 4 cups to begin with (for about a gallon of water) and then stir until it dissolves. I add another cup once that dissolves and keep doing that until the water won't hold any more salt. By the time I am done adding salt, all the stirring has cooled the water down to a temp that the horse is comfortable to stand in. My test is if I can put my own hand in the water and leave it there for at least 10-15 seconds without overheating, then it is usually cool enough for the horse.

.

Morgan
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

You add as much salt as the water will dissolve. I usually add 3 or 4 cups to begin with (for about a gallon of water) and then stir until it dissolves. I add another cup once that dissolves and keep doing that until the water won't hold any more salt. By the time I am done adding salt, all the stirring has cooled the water down to a temp that the horse is comfortable to stand in. My test is if I can put my own hand in the water and leave it there for at least 10-15 seconds without overheating, then it is usually cool enough for the horse.

if you get a soaking boot you won't need a gallon :P

Monsterpony
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

My horses like to stomp in their soaking boots so I usually keep extra around to top it off as the water gets dumped. Lately though, my vet has been using a thick cotton with burlap foot bandage and soaking in that, then leaving the bandage on after finishing in the bucket.

.

Morgan
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

I'm lazy, I just stuff the top with cotton and duck tape it. Though I started that for Sissy, when I tried to soak a hind foot she spend the whole time on three legs kicking. :roll:

Monsterpony
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

I had one Cushingoid pony that got abscesses on a regular basis and required soaking. He learned that I would soak for twenty minutes each time and would kick the bucket across the room at exactly the twenty minute mark. You always knew when he had an abscess due to the fine sheen of dried salt crust splattered around the barn.

.

accphotography
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

I always thought packing with icthamol did a nice job, after the soaking of course.

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Heather
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

I do soaking then icthalmol with wrapped up for a few days ..will draw it out. you can get that at CVS or rite aid.

PamelaTX
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

What is a soaking boot??

I gave her a shot & she let me soak it for about 10 minutes in very warm water.
I inspected the hoof after it was soaked & don't see any bulges or wounds.
I actually don't see any swelling...looks the same as the other front.
But she is very sore/ouchy still.
Will check on her again around 11pm & see how she is once the shot has had time to kick in.

Thanks everyone for y'alls help.

I can say at times she almost enjoyed the warm water. As her leg was in the bucket I would dip my hand in get some water & rub some down the cannon bone to the fetlock & pastern. But then on the other hand she wanted to jump around & take it out.

Monsterpony
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

There are different types of soaking boots, but this is the most common I have seen: http://www.davismanufacturing.com/files/..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, they are rubber boots that strap above the hoof that you put the foot in, fill with water and tie shut. They work pretty well if you have a horse that won't stand in a bucket.

.

Sara
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

MP, what is your opinion of Morgan's advice not to dig it out? My vets always dig out abscesses and when the black goo oozes out, you can see the horse visibly relieved and walking better. Of course then I keep the hoof wrapped in a soak wrap (epsom salts, betadine, newborn diaper, vetrap, duct tape) for several days.

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Heidi
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Slap me if this is a dumb idea...

...but how about using a large, cheap, disposable baby diaper? Soak it really well with the water/Epsom solution, set the hoof in it and then duct tape around it. Horse can stomp around all it wants.

To make it last longer and/or to use as a bandage to keep a wound clean:
My farrier (waaaaay back in the late 80s and I was in college) showed me how to lay out a bunch of 20" long strips of wide duct tape, overlaping them by about a half to whole inch until you'd made a square, then turned the square a quarter turn and laid out enough overlapping strips to cover it in that direction. (all pieces of tape, sticky-side-up)

Make your soaking solution and pour it into the diaper until it has absorbed as much as it can and is very *squishy*. Scientific, isn't it? ;)

Either apply the duct tape square to the diaper before adding the water or after you've wrapped the soaked diaper around the hoof and taped the top snugly (but not tight) around the fetlock to prevent it from slipping down off the hoof.
Another idea I had, was to insert a small piece of flexible tubing deep into the diaper wrap. I could use a funnel on the end of the tube that stuck out and add more solution until it would dribble out the top.

Morgan
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

lol Heidi, I learned exactly the same duct tape technique from my vet in TN. I use it for when they have a hole on the bottom of their foot for whatever reason, sometimes with a boot (riding boot or soaker, no matter, anything with a tough sole that remotely fits) on top to keep them from wearing throught the toe. When Chase hurt his heel I didn't put the boot on top the first night as I didn't think he would be that active, in the morning the duct take was up over his fetlock. :roll:

MP, what is your opinion of Morgan's advice not to dig it out? My vets always dig out abscesses and when the black goo oozes out, you can see the horse visibly relieved and walking better. Of course then I keep the hoof wrapped in a soak wrap (epsom salts, betadine, newborn diaper, vetrap, duct tape) for several days.

well, I supose if it's a really horrid one and your vet is very good at pinpointing it you could do it and be better off but I've never had one last more than 3 days with the horse lame before it blew out or just fizzled and the evidence showed later, and to me that's a better trade off to having to grow a hole out of their sole and have them tender for a few weeks. You do get the ugly blowout at the top sometimes but most of the time the damage I see had come out the frog or heel and does't bother the horse at all in the long run. At worst a flap of sole will shed after a while and leave a tender spot.
I'm a mean mom, I just soak and give them bute and hug them and give them lots of pity till its over.

If you have rocks around be aware that the soaking predisposes them to further bruising.

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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

My vet uses hoof testers and he's always been able to just dig it right out.

Oh, and that diaper, epsom salts, duct tape deal is exactly what I was talking about. It's a great (but somewhat expensive because of all the supplies needed) wrap to know how to do! I always have a supply of newborn diapers on hand because they're great for hooves and hocks.

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Monsterpony
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Yep, I definately have a lot of experience with diapers and duct tape. That is even the bandage that we are taught to do in the vet school.

This is all just my own opinion, but as to digging out abscesses, I would rather dig than wait. An abscess is, by definition a pocket of pus, and the hoof is not designed to have fluid pockets, hence the severe lameness horses show do to pain from pressure. The longer the pressure is in the hoof, the more pus is accumulating and damage is being done. Plus, what happens if the abscess ruptures out the coronet band or into a joint rather than out the hoofwall? Also, my latest vet uses a dremel rather than a hoof knife to open the pockets. It removes much less hoof and is not as painful because you don't have to put the pressure of digging into removing the hoof wall.

.

Morgan
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Well, two ways of thinking. With me it's a matter of degree and what shape the hoof is in, and I've yet to have one that I think really required it and when I did get them dug out they healed a lot slower. Well, rather the abscess wound be healed but it took forever to get the horse not tender on rough ground again and with one even it turned into a wack-a-mole game.
I've actually had a vet refuse to open one because my horse's hoof was too nice :lol:
If a horse had a crappy foot to begin with that was already sore and it was a really bad one I might have it done to save them additional pain, but typically on those the sole is already so thin that it busts itself out the bottom right away. Or if it lasted more than a few days but otherwise I find they get right over it and I'll just wait on the damage to hit ground level and trim off.

Plus, what happens if the abscess ruptures out the coronet band or into a joint rather than out the hoofwall?

I have never heard of one rupturing into a joint? And an average abscess coming out the coronary band is no trouble at all, just make a nasty lump and cavity you have to grow out. If it is big enough to cause a real problem it's likely laminitis related and you have bigger issues so, yeah, go ahead and get it out quick.

vneerland
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Pamela, how is your filly doing?

PamelaTX
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Re: Need some advice (vneerland...I think similar to yours)

Well I had the farrier (totally different 1 than was here on the 8th of March-I'll NEVER use him again...period) out today.
He trimmed her up & found 2 small spots. He didn't dig them out.
I guess we're gonna let it works itself out. For the past 2 days she's been walking better...not the best but so much better than before. I made a make shift stall out of my 1 shed & have her up in there...not completely stalled as I have a 16 ft cattle panel blocking her in so she has some room to move around. Will keep her up for now.

Thanks for askin!!