Last foal of the season

I *think* black, but not postive as the picture is shadowy.

can u see dun? in person his face is very dark, he has leg barring, thick dorsal stripe which runs into the tail, dark patches on his shoulders, rims of his ears are dark also. this is photo is of a day old, he is 3 days old today and his body is very light compared to his face & dun traits, like black to white it is that noticeable.

That's the first thing that I thought was dun, but where's the white? I thought with that sire you should have got some white fo sho.

from bandit we have had a max framed overo & sabino like himself from a black mare, loud framed overo from a solid mare, tovero from a tobiano mare, minimal framed overo from a solid mare, solid black from a dun mare & this fella from a silver dapple.

I think black, but I wonder if he'll get a bit of sabino roaning come in later?

I think grullo.

[img]http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56…]

[img]http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56…]

No question grullo IMO.

[quote="accphotography"]No question grullo IMO.[/quote]

Ditto...even in the first pix, his dorsal is very distinct and crisp...the only question is where did it come from? Could it be hiding in daddy? What about mom? It is in there somewhere.

Hmm.. I'm so not good at black duns in the minis!! :?

I think it's very possible it's mom.

doesn't come from the sires sire, has to come from the dam line, both his dam & grandam which i have here have what i thought was false dun markings, obviously they aren't false markings...?

dam (silver dapple) & grandam (black appy)

[img]http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56…]

Well I guess they are either ALL false dun markings, or not all NOT false dun!! :LOL!! :D

A non dun foal can have primative markings that obvious too? Or not really?

the silver dapple does have a dorsal stripe, leg barring frt & back, darker face & rims around her ears however certainly not like a 'typical' dun or her sons, they are quite light, in winter you can't see most of those markings only in her summer coat.

Rabbit has said and shown that some black dun minis don't show it very well at all. I think I remember her saying she had a black mare she didn't know was dun until she threw an obvious dun. Grullo mini foals are born very different looking than big horses for some reason.

I would say Black+dun. :)
very cute baby by the way.

if that was a big horse foal I would say black without a doubt. But I will bow to those with mini experience.

That baby is adorable! His little face is impish!

Black Dun, I would say. I never did find out if Bertie was Dun or not, but he was a lot darker than this little boy and I would have laid money he was Dun.....
I did have a mare a few years back who was, to all intents and purposes, faded Black, and she threw a decisive Red Dun to a Black stallion.
Nice foal.

We own a GRP-mare who looks black --- just when she sheds her coat you can see leg barrings, stripes at her nose and a dorsal stripe - then her head is a touch darker then the rest of the coat.

Her mom is grulla, her dad smoky black.

Last year she had a foal with a chestnut - bay, darker head, shoulder markings, dorsal stripe, cobwebbing on the forehead and slight stripes at the muzzle. The foal now looks like a dark brown - I´m very curios how it looks when she´s throug with shedding her coat.

Here a pic of mom and foal in august 2010
[img=400x300]http://whynot-ponys.de/images_big/whyno…]

Those all sound like typical seal brown characteristics to me.

We want to test her - the Lady from the Colour Genetic Institute of Uni Zürich thinks she´s a very very dark slate grulla.

Sounds like a job for UC Davies

I have to bring this old thread up again - our Siena yesterday had her second foal and the young man prooved our hypothesis of very dark slate grulla true for mom.

Here are pics of mommy, daddy and their new offspring - WhyNot Mirage ---- better pics will be made in the next few days

Mommy - WhyNot Siena:

Daddy - Pentagon - black tobiano homozygous

WhyNot Mirage - definitely dun

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I could be wrong but I think the foal is black...

Have a look at this page  http://grullablue.com/colors/foalcolors.htm  They have some awesome examples of foals coats.  

Grullo foals are generally much more beige.  While it is common for black foals to have a countershaded dorsal.  

What ever the color he's a beauty!

Black Dun foal.......

Agree with the others, baby doesn't look grulla to me. Just black. 

Just to clarify we're not saying the Dam isn't dark grullo she could be...just that we don't think this particular foal has dun.  

Do you have more photos of Mom?

Mom is the very dark mare up over the foal - she has dun-markings. The problem with these is you see them only when the coat turns from winter to summer coat - when the sun shines clear you can see the wild markings on her legs, the shoulder cross, the  eelstripe ..... but only for a few weeks.   I have one pic from yesterday where you can see her leg-markings

Here the young man:

I believe he´ll get the same colour as his mom when he matures - nearly black.

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[quote]problem with these is you see them only when the coat turns from winter to summer coat[/quote] 

This is one of the first signs of countershading, which can include leg baring and other primitive type markings.  In every case I have ever encountered the dun dorsal is visible year round even on very dark grullos.  

This mare 

http://www.accphotography.com/gallery/photos/lacy/Lacy_06_20_09/IMG_4896.jpg.html  Has a very defined dorsal for part of the year and also has shoulder bars and leg bars.  She tested negative for dun with UC Davis.  

If you scroll down on this page to "Grullo Adult Shades" there is a very good example of an extremely dark grullo.  Even in the poorly angled photo you can still see a very dark dorsal stripe.   

http://www.duncentralstation.com/Grulla.html

There are always exceptions in horses and I would love to be wrong but in my opinion your mares doesn't have dun.