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Isabelle at the hospital

Isabelle is in having colic surgery right now. She should be out in 1.5-2 hours. She has an 80% chance of surviving. Please keep her and Solo in your thoughts.

accphotography Tue, 06/09/2009 - 22:38

Constant turn out and no blankets here so they need plenty of roughage in that cecum to keep their little hineys warm. :lol:

Sara Tue, 06/09/2009 - 23:22

So apparently my hay is just too good! If my horses ate it all day, seriously, they would be so fat they couldn't do anything. I would say that my horses spend four to six hours a day eating and the rest of the time they are just hanging out, playing with their paddock buddies, sleeping, being ridden, whatever. My ponies spend less time than that eating but I try to let them out to nibble weeds for a couple hours a day just so they have something to do.

The only problems I've had with boredom vices were Maggie who started eating wood (but she seems to have stopped now that she gets loose minerals) and Teddy who cribs but he started that at the racetrack.

Horses who get truly bored can be given local hay (really only fit for cattle) or straw (Maggie used to get a flake of straw once a day) just so they think they are eating something more. I call it "rice cakes".

PamelaTX Wed, 06/10/2009 - 01:58

[color=#8000BF][b]I'm so glad Isabelle is doin well & is home!!! :bounce

Now around here square bales go for anywhere from $5 - $8 (maybe more).
But when I buy the square bales I pay $6 & I believe they're 50 lbs. Now 1 bale last me about 2 days with my girls.
But for the past few months I've been buying round bales & they last my 2 girls about a month...free choice & they're in a dry lot. The rounds I've been getting are $25 & I believe its around 1000 - 1200 lbs.[/b][/color]

accphotography Wed, 06/10/2009 - 02:43

So they would be eating about 12.5lbs a day. If you're off on that bale weight by even 10lbs that would put them at 20lbs a day which is probably about right for their weight since they're dry lotted. It's a complete dry lot? Do you feed much grain?

all that sass Wed, 06/10/2009 - 05:35

i'm gonna take the scale down with me and weigh my bales. i KNOW my horses wouldn't be happy on 1/2 bale....although, maybe they would get used to it. i have a chubby pony who is dry lotted and eating 1/3 of a bale a day. he does get into A LOT of trouble though, taking out fences, banging stuff with his front feet ect. he was on free choice round bales before he came here, so i am hoping its an adjustment period.

sara, do all your horses/ponies eat grain? i guess when hay is harder to get and more expensive it would makes sense to feed just what is required in hay and supplement it.....my feeding practices would be considered wasteful.

ok, here is some math

2.5/bale/day/horse
so one horse eats 17.50/week at 1bale/day
if i cut them down to 1/2 bale and added grain it would be 1/2 bag/week at 22/bag that's 11/week

so 1/2 bale/day would be 8.75 + 11 = 18.75/per horse/week...
so 1.25 difference and probably the same results. Of course all my guys get their fancy pantsy vit/trace min supplement, but if everyone was on full ration of grain that would be unnecessary so that might make up a bit more of a savings. honestly, most people feed free choice hay around here and typically in the form of dumping a round bale in the field and letting them have at it, but you need to either have them under cover, or have enough horses in one field to make those bales disappear in a short period of time or most of the bale would be waste.

vneerland Wed, 06/10/2009 - 10:57

[quote="accphotography"]Constant turn out and no blankets here so they need plenty of roughage in that cecum to keep their little hineys warm. :lol:[/quote]

:lol: I meant constant turnout as in no barn, but shelter.

[quote="PamelaTX"]But when I buy the square bales I pay $6 & I believe they're 50 lbs. Now 1 bale last me about 2 days with my girls.[/quote]

That sounds like you feed hay in the neighborhood of what I feed.
Would be interesting to get Krickettes input (since she is in the 'hood') so we can figure out why our horses get fat on less hay? :? :o Something in the water? :twisted: [size=65]Of course, we'd have to weigh to be sure that we're off. Our bales could be heavier, like ACC suggests[/size]

Morgan Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:27

Believe me I would pay more for hay if I could find better. :lol: Right now I've got $4.50 bluestem hay they weight about 70-80 lb (I'm pretty sure of this, some might even be bigger, I can carry a 50lb feed sack in one hand, I have to [i]drag[/i] these. :lol: ). I have 6 horses, 3 in the 800 range and 3 are 1000(I count V here cause she'll be bigger than that and she eats like it). I feed 2 bales a day.
On top of that I have to feed about 4 lbs of oats each and V gets on top of that a lb of Rice Bran and a lb of Calf Manna.
(I have [i]no[/i] grass)
The do live out of doors on the side of a hill with a shelter and one is a very hard keeper(Ali) and Chase spends the entire summer working out (i.e. charging about from place to place at top speed lol) and of course the growing 2 yo.

Sara Wed, 06/10/2009 - 11:31

[quote="all that sass"]sara, do all your horses/ponies eat grain? i guess when hay is harder to get and more expensive it would makes sense to feed just what is required in hay and supplement it.....my feeding practices would be considered wasteful.[/quote]

All my guys get grain, from a low end of about 2/3 pound a day for the small and medium ponies, except for Texas who gets 3.5 pounds per day, through Tiffany who gets about 8.5 pounds per day.

Andrea Wed, 06/10/2009 - 14:55

Just out of curiosity... What do you feed Cory and Tickle?
My ponies are fat and sassy on 2 flakes a day! I can't imagine feeding a horse that much! Even my 15.3 QH Cisco only got 3 flakes and he kept his weight really good.
Our flake is about 2-3 lbs.
I've got Silo on 3 flakes a day and free choice grass hay with 5 lbs of pellets, bran, and boss. She's finally improving her weight. Ditto is really taking it out of her! I'll be weaning in August.

Sara Wed, 06/10/2009 - 15:35

Cory gets a flake and a half of hay (7.5 pounds) plus just under a pound of Strategy. Tickle gets two flakes of hay (10 pounds) plus about 1.3 pounds of Strategy. Tickle also gets to munch weeds in her "pasture". She is a few inches taller than Cory and about 150 pounds heavier.

all that sass Wed, 06/10/2009 - 15:53

I think this type of feeding would work well in the summer (if i needed to feed hay all summer) because my guys spend a lot of the day 'hanging around' when its hot hot but i have a feeling i would have some Popsicle ponies in the winter even with winter blankets if they ate so little roughage. blankets and full winter coats don't help much at -30 + windchill ..... even with a run-in that is just STUPID COLD! man i REALLY shouldn't think about winter......not in late spring.....that's depressing!

Sara Wed, 06/10/2009 - 16:32

Somehow I just saw the "a" at the beginning of your name and my brain went "Andrea" and I was going to tell her that her ponies were big fat weenies if they thought California winters were cold!!

I actually have two ponies that fooled me over the winter and got drawn down before I caught it and started feeding them up. Owen and Cory have always been air ferns but some of the others need to be fed up when it's cold.

Andrea Wed, 06/10/2009 - 16:44

Hey... We had some nights that got down to 45! LOL. Can't beat California for weather. But I'd trade it in a sec if I could have 20 acres, a tractor, and an ATV. But then I would have 20 ponies I'm sure and Mike would divorce me. So, I'll stick with California :lol:

PamelaTX Wed, 06/10/2009 - 17:40

[quote="accphotography"]So they would be eating about 12.5lbs a day. If you're off on that bale weight by even 10lbs that would put them at 20lbs a day which is probably about right for their weight since they're dry lotted. It's a complete dry lot? Do you feed much grain?[/quote]

[color=#8000BF][b]Yes, they get fed grain twice a day...I've got Jackie on about 6 lbs of the extruded feed & Lacey's is about 7 lbs.
Now last time I weight taped them (as we know its not accurate) Jackie was about 620 lbs & Lacey was about 725 lbs, but thats been months ago. Yes the dry lot has no grass at all, but I do have a grazing area next to it I turn them onto every once in a while. I'm also in the process of extending it by another 30 x 50 ft.[/b][/color]

PamelaTX Wed, 06/10/2009 - 17:50

[quote="vneerland"][quote="accphotography"]
[quote="PamelaTX"]But when I buy the square bales I pay $6 & I believe they're 50 lbs. Now 1 bale last me about 2 days with my girls.[/quote]

That sounds like you feed hay in the neighborhood of what I feed.
Would be interesting to get Krickettes input (since she is in the 'hood') so we can figure out why our horses get fat on less hay? :? :o Something in the water? :twisted: [size=65]Of course, we'd have to weigh to be sure that we're off. Our bales could be heavier, like ACC suggests[/size][/quote][/quote]

[color=#8000BF][b]Well I chalk it up to growin girls!!! Now when I had my stud colt he didn't get near as much feed & less hay than the girls.
Lacey is my hard keeper I think. Well maybe not a hard keeper, but she's staying in a constant growth spurt.
She keeps growing up & not out!!! I've switched my girls to that extruded feed plus I have them both on DAC Oil (2 oz. twice a day) & I have Lacey on 2 cups of Rice Bran twice a day. I just don't like how boney her withers back & croup are lookin.
The girl is drivin me crazy with her growing. Plus she's stayin just a tad ribby. She keeps growin so much!! I wish I could slow it down, but dunno if I can. She's probably 14.2 or 14.3 at 15 months old.[/b][/color] :shock:

Monsterpony Wed, 06/10/2009 - 21:01

I am intrigued by what the surgeon said about long fiber after foaling. I can understand that for the initial post partum period, but three weeks out? I do know that too high indigestible fiber can cause impaction colic (feeding straw is not a good idea). An interesting fact about hay is that horses will actually eat more hay when it is higher quality. If you are feeding the cheap stuff/basically straw, horses won't generally eat more than 1.5% body weight, but they can eat up to 3-4% body weight in the top quality stuff.

Monsterpony Wed, 06/10/2009 - 21:02

Also, Sara, what is the name of the woman in the picture that said she knows me? I am blanking on names right now.

Sara Wed, 06/10/2009 - 21:10

Hmm, her name was Darby or something like that. I forgot her last name.

From what the surgeon said, the hay should be cut back for the last month or so of pregnancy and the first two months postpartum. And I know large amounts of straw are bad but what I was tossing to Maggie was maybe a pound or two a day. The straw bales flaked really tiny. It's something I picked up in Europe, actually. (Bad, bad Europe with its rollkur and straw feeding!) I bet the straw was easier for her to digest than those wood splinters. :P

So... tell me how my horses could possibly eat 4% of their body weight in my hay per day and not look like giant blimps, please!

Monsterpony Wed, 06/10/2009 - 22:01

But now you don't need to worry about wood splinters, right? Three cheers for minerals.

Have you ever had your hay analyzed? Green and leafy doesn't necessarily equate to high energy. Also, your horses work their hindends off so they probably burn it all off (though you know my opinion and your opinion of pony body condition scores are not entirely the same :D )

Sara Wed, 06/10/2009 - 23:18

I haven't... but have you ever heard of eastern Oregon grass hay that wasn't any good? I actually have no complaints about my hay. It smells like Froot Loops. I'd eat it if I could digest the stuff. ;) I have very few energy problems either -- really only Teddy, who has been tested for everything in the book due to how lazy he is. When he was showing in the Junior Hunters he was on Red Cell, free choice alfalfa pellets, plus his six flakes of hay (I think it was four grass, two alfalfa) and grain. I wasn't feeding my own horses at that point but I'd have to guess he got at least five pounds of some sort of sweet feed (not my favorite now) and he may also have been on beet pulp and rice bran. Oh, and NW Horse Supplement. :roll:

When you come back this summer (hint hint!) you should eyeball the ponies for me and tell me if anyone is alarmingly fat. I don't think any of them are over a 6.

all that sass Fri, 06/12/2009 - 06:42

you can feed 4% of their body weight in hay when your horses are using it for body heat! i cant explain the summer since i have always fed a bale/day for my horses and have had to supplement anyone who is growing or working hard with grain. this is the first summer i have had grass, so i am keeping and eye on everyone and adjusting as i go. Right now everyone is on 24 hour grass except the 2 boarders, the new rescue and indie who had some diarrhea form 24/hour and is back inside at night now. I only have the new rescue and a fast growing 2 year old (boarder) on actual grain, the rest get their supplement which is low cal but apparently tastes fantastic and they think they are being spoiled.....perhaps i should come for a visit and see your hay and bring a couple bales of mine so we can compare. Or better yet! i will have mine analyzed! we are making our own hay (hay guy willing) before the end of the month, so i will send some of that out and see whats going on. It may have to do with when it is harvested....even the time of day its cut can change things dramatically.

Sara Fri, 06/12/2009 - 11:09

So, here's a question.

I've always known that my local hay is poor quality but the surgeon offered me the most scathing criticism of it that I've ever heard. She was almost angry as she described it. She said that as a horse feed it's completely worthless. They get NOTHING out of it. I've never fed it, even to my ponies, so what she said doesn't affect me but it made me curious. Hay is made from the grass that grows out of the soil here (obviously) and the soil is the source of the worthless quality of the hay, so does that also mean that the grass is nutritionally worthless? That would explain why my ponies standing in a grass paddock still called for their hay meal. So, the grass here just keeps their digestion going but offers nothing else? I'm even less inclined to bother seeding my pastures if this is the case.

all that sass Fri, 06/12/2009 - 15:05

i think there are some areas where the nutrition derived from hay is so low that it is not suitable as a sole diet, but unless you are in an area where the grass or hay has toxic levels of, say, selenium, it still has some nutritional value and can be supplemented to complete the diet.

Krickette Fri, 06/12/2009 - 15:15

My horses get 2 scoops of "sweet stuff" (cheapest sweet feed at the co-op), and 2 flakes of bermuda grass hay a day, and you've seen how fat they are, lol! I think it is something in the water. Sara, if you ever want to save on feed, just move on down here, I'll even help take a few ponies off your hands :angel:

CMhorses Fri, 06/12/2009 - 15:39

I know where I live they are pretty fat on just the grass and nothing else. Theres a nice farm down the road for sale!

Sara Sat, 06/27/2009 - 21:34

Isabelle is back at the hospital.

She went down this morning. The colic seemed mild but I called the vet immediately due to her history. It still seemed mild when the vet came -- her vitals were good although she appeared to be in a fair amount of pain -- so he gave her drugs to control her pain, tubed her with mineral oil, left me with a shot of dormosedan, and told me to call him in a couple hours to see how she was doing. 20 minutes after he left she went down and would not get up so I called him back. (I feel bad for the lady with the lame horse who kept getting put off today!) Between his first exam and his second, her spleen had shifted back to more where her cecum should have been (at least on the ultrasound) so she's starting to twist again. We got her on the trailer and down to the hospital so they can observe her around the clock and decide whether she needs surgery again.

I think the story earlier in this thread about a horse getting lesions after surgery must actually have referred to adhesions. My vet explained those today and she is not at much risk for those because those tend to occur in horses who have had to have resections (removal of part of the intestines) and she didn't have that.